Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby CatPredator » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:25 am

I've been playing in big bulky boots this winter that hinder my run up. Snow on the fairways is also problematic. As a result, I've been throwing standstills almost exclusively, even off clean tees.

They've been surprisingly consistent. I can't throw anything faster than a fairway driver very well, but it's added a whole new layer to my strategy. I think it will translate into an improvement in my game come summer in a few ways.

First, and most obvious, I've developed the ability and confidence to throw standstills up to 325-350'. Also, I'm seeing a lot of different approach angles than I'm used to on my 2nd shot. Most of my approaches on long holes have been 100 feet longer than they are in the summer. I'm getting a lot of practice on approach shots and long putts. And finally, it will really fuck with some of the locals when I out-drive them from a standstill with a putter....

Anybody else forced to, or choose to, work on standstill during the winter and find it helpful?
CatPredator
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:54 pm
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Favorite Disc: Aviars

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby JR » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:31 am

Stand stills in the summer do need practice but i have more pressing issues. Stand stills in the winter aren't the same and they help only partially. If i took time off to practice stand stills in the summer it would help more than winter time playing stand stills. If there's not a lot of snow on the tees you can take at least x steps with grip enhancers. Like Yaktrax Pro for a little snow and Veriga or Kahtoola cleats for more snow and added traction. Beware that the cleats have so much traction most of the time that pivoting is often happening by twisting the ankles, knees and hips possibly even the back. Ouch time if pushed too far with too fast steps. You can slip on stand stills so cleats are ideal for winter time stand stills for giving you a more stable platform from which to generate and apply more power.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11538
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby bcr123psu » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:13 am

I stand and deliver almost exclusively. Although I can get up to 30' more with a run up, with the standstill, I have a greater degree of accuracy and the pain that frequently appears around my elbow is typically minimized. One thing to remember, especially on drives, is that without the run-up you don't have as much momentum and, therefore, you could have a tendency to not follow through. Try rocking from leg to leg and be especially mindful of pivoting your feet, transferring weight, and pushing off with your back foot, almost as if you were throwing from the tail end of a run-up. What I try to do is follow everything from Dan Beto's legendary "Working Backward From the Hit" up to the point where the X-Step is discussed.

That said, once I get my elbow diagnosed and rehabbed, and once I recover from some upcoming surgery (I'm still going to be a man afterward, so don't bother asking if it's "that" kind of surgery), I'm going to start working on the X-step again as I'd really like to add that 30' back into my game.
bcr123psu
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:30 pm
Location: In a bottle
Favorite Disc: The one in my brakes

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby CatPredator » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:00 am

I'm not sure I understand how standstills in the winter are different than summer? I've found the opposite to be true. On standstills you can find a stable position and deliver (much like during summer) whereas, if you Xstep, there is a much higher chance you jam a cleat on some ice/cement during your pivot or mis-step on some uneven terrain and twist something. If you're afraid to generate power with your hips and core for fear of injuring yourself you're not going to be practicing good habits on a run up.

In the summer I get an extra 100 feet out of my Forces/Nukes with a run up but in the winter my feet are so slow and heavy that I lose separation between my hips and shoulders, my timing gets boned, and I don't get my weight forward. My drives were crippled by the boots for a few months until I started throwing standstills.

We clear all the teepads with a shovel or broom and the fairways are covered with snow which you sink into up to [at least] your knees so there is little chance of a slip. My boots have great ankle support and keep me warm and dry so I think I will stick with them. I don't play competitively during the winter so it's a conditioning and skill building period. Winter disc is a lot like playing small ball. Fewer birdies, but no bogeys allowed!
CatPredator
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:54 pm
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Favorite Disc: Aviars

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby NoLifeLeft » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:18 am

I don't have much trouble on tee pads in the winter because I step through my drive on short steps instead of big fast steps and jamming the plant foot. Sometimes I'll get a shortened hop step on bigger drives. I rarely use a run up in the fairway even in the summer.

So I guess in the winter I mostly work on making my footwork more efficient.
NoLifeLeft
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1655
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:13 pm
Location: Winchester, VA
Favorite Disc: a whole bag of 'em

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby JR » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:51 am

Ankle support from boots=lost pivot due to less motion range of the ankle=less D. Knee deep snow also slows down or eliminates pivot. And can still trip you over possibly also twisting your leg.

The difference between a non cleated winter stand still drive and a summer time stand still throw is that in the summer there is more traction. That may also be true of a cleated winter throw. The result is that in the summer you can push at full power with the legs and twist the hips right at full power and the countering force is conducted to the ground via the left leg. In the winter the traction ain't enough always and especially on unmaintained tees that can have any number of problems reducing traction. Even if they allowed unimpeded pivots. Which is a great if. If your feet slip you just lost a lot of power from weight shift and hip explosion plus pivot. I haven't done a test for this but i know my stand stills are longer in the summer. With cleats on. I lose even more D if i don't use cleats.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11538
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby CatPredator » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:56 pm

JR wrote:...less D...


Winter isn't a time I use to work on distance throwing and the point wasn't that standstills are good for throwing far.

What I don't understand is how any of that stuff you mentioned is different for a drive which utilizes a run up. You are still dealing with those problems except you also have to worry about the two, three, or more steps you take during the run up. Even one misstep can be catastrophic to your balance and ruin a throw or pull a muscle the wrong way.

When you stand still you can actually find a position which has good traction for your pivot foot and dig in as opposed to hoping you hit the right spot on your run up.
CatPredator
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:54 pm
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Favorite Disc: Aviars

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby Powdertoast » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:13 pm

I stand and deliver on my throws to 300' or more, I dunno how far exactly. I don't have snow to deal with here, I just don't get more distance or accuracy out of running up right now. One of my goals this year is to bring back in ye olde x-step to gain some more distance, but it's not a need, and it's going to take a lot of practice, which I don't have time for at the moment.

Some people do get a little freaked out by a throw that far without a run-up. It's kind of fun to see them amused by my stance and then have that "Oh..." moment when the disc heads out.

The furthest discs in my bag are a Roadrunner and a PD. Anything faster tends to meathook for me without getting much more distance or enough control. Yet :D

As it stands (huhuh), I'm pretty ok with my goofy no-run-up throws.
Cinderella story. Outta nowhere.... It looks like a mirac... It's in the chains!
Powdertoast
2010 DGR Donator
User avatar
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:16 pm
Location: Behind you!
Favorite Disc: Vector

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby JR » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:54 am

CatPredator wrote:
JR wrote:...less D...


Winter isn't a time I use to work on distance throwing and the point wasn't that standstills are good for throwing far.

What I don't understand is how any of that stuff you mentioned is different for a drive which utilizes a run up. You are still dealing with those problems except you also have to worry about the two, three, or more steps you take during the run up. Even one misstep can be catastrophic to your balance and ruin a throw or pull a muscle the wrong way.

When you stand still you can actually find a position which has good traction for your pivot foot and dig in as opposed to hoping you hit the right spot on your run up.


Less D winter time stand still D without cleats vs with cleats. Golf distance that is. I don't have any difficulties in slipping and getting excess resistance to the pivot doing the same preparations you do. Running up with cleats is dangerous not just for the added slipping possibilities but also with the pivot being stopped or hampered by the cleats. So anything that turns is likely to be your joints to overextension at least if you heavy duty cleats. That's the major difference and it's a dangerous difference. That doesn't meant that i don't run up when the snow ain't too deep. It is now unless the tee is cleared at least somewhat. I think that winter with proper equipment for the current conditions is not always totally hampering even distance throwing. The difference mild vs heavy duty cleats used in a proper place with low enough snow is amazing vs even great soles. Great soles plus cleats take a little bit of irritation off of the winter being sucky. I cleared a javelin throwing runway partially and fully for a while this month and man it was a pleasure to throw without cleats with summer form. Way different results from winter throwing. Suitable cleats FTW! That means it's not a bad idea to have Yaktrax Pro/Veriga cleat combo.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11538
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby Ven » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:31 pm

I played a lot of Ultimate so I have a lot of confidence in my stand still throws. In the winter I rarely run up. I do not use cleats. I wear knee high Muck Boots, which are light, warm and have good traction. In the summer I only use run ups for extreme distance drives. If I can reach my target without a run up I stand still. Less variables in the throw make it easier to be consistent.
Ven
Noob
User avatar
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:20 am
Location: Malden Bridge NY
Favorite Disc: Daredevil Wolverine

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby dehaas » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:24 am

We've had a lot more snow and ice than usual this winter so I've been throwing a lot of standstill shots. Initially the thought was to give up a little distance and gain accuracy by reducing the risk of slipping during a run up. After a bit of practice I gained distance pretty quick and feel pretty comfortable throwing from a standstill off the tee. Today it was 70 where I live so all the tees have dried out, and was able to get a full run up. I was surprised to see that I wasn't getting a ton of extra distance, and overall my standstill throws were a lot more consistent in terms of accuracy and smooth release. I think continuing to practice this will help my throw a lot, and I plan on getting rid of a lot of the high speed stuff. I think people take their timing for granted...basing my distance off of the tee signs (which may or may not be accurate) I was getting wizards out to about 250, buzzzes out to about 280, and teebirds out a little over 300 feet. With a run up I normally get in the 325-350 range, and with an open hole and a big flex shot with a boss I can get up to 400 feet. Being able to put the timing of the hit from a standstill throw with a run up should help a ton.
dehaas
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:10 pm
Location: Lebanon, IL
Favorite Disc: wizard

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby masterbeato » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:55 am

Cat,

I choose to throw a lot of standstill shots out there because I am actually better off on a lot of shots to throw that way because i find it a ton more consistent. It is very good to practice stand still shots if you favor my humble opinion. Easier to line up and execute and winter is pretty much perfect for it due to the fact that we have like 400 feet of snow, and wearing big boots like you say that really screw up a good run-up. Winter is all about survival around here!

Now to answer your question about why it is easier in the winter than the summer, is I noticed since I practice a lot of stand stills and I learned how to throw the way I do because of the stand still I know that for you the focus may be different. Practice it a lot in the summer time and see what you come up with because I am used to stand stills and I will revert to a standstill sometimes to make sure I hit a line. If you want to play sometime during teh spring or whenever the snow melts just hit me up, and who knows maybe because of this winter you will be a ton better at it than previous years because your putting more interest and importance into this.

Let me know!
My PDGA - Dan Beto

Frank Delicious wrote:and now we know the secret to your power. You are more machine than bear!
masterbeato
lol Z predator
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:37 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Favorite Disc: Pro D X2

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby CatPredator » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:04 am

We've played together at least once. Allen and I shot a doubles round with you and some other dude at Acorn doubles. You were having a bad day... we won with a score you probably aim to shoot solo, heh. Josh...dgnuts guy.

But this winter has been awesome for disc golf. Made improvements to my game that I'm feeling really, really good about. Blake and you deserve a lot of credit for the stuff you've done here. Tons of information to help anyone become a great disc golfer, concisely located in a few spots on here. Every damn day there is a league or tournament happening in our area with some solid players too. That puts fuel in the fire to get better.
CatPredator
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:54 pm
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Favorite Disc: Aviars

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby masterbeato » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:23 pm

Thanks Josh,

and never put yourself out of credits' way you and Allen have been doing some great things for Disc Golf the past year 1/2. I appreciate the support and if there is anything I can do you know where to find me.
My PDGA - Dan Beto

Frank Delicious wrote:and now we know the secret to your power. You are more machine than bear!
masterbeato
lol Z predator
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:37 am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Favorite Disc: Pro D X2

Re: Stand still shots in the winter and beyond...

Postby vtbuzzz » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:48 pm

Stand still shots with a mid range, on the short tees in 2 feet of snow has def improved my game, i now trust my mids more than ever before. And also I pay more attention to my hand position and release point so the disc comes out where I want it to. I hope it translates to nice weather play
vtbuzzz
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:23 am
Location: Burlington, VT
Favorite Disc: Buzzz


Return to Technique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests