Valkyrie Rolling on fade...

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Valkyrie Rolling on fade...

Postby sparkyahs » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:34 pm

I think this is in the right section....

First of all, yes, I am new to disc golf. I played one summer in high school and now 6 years later a buddy of mine (from high school) got in touch with me and took me out again. He gave me a couple of discs to start out with and some pointers before he left to go back to his neck of the woods. The discs he gave me were a Gateway Diablo and an Omega putter because I was able to throw them fairly well on the 18 holes we played. I had been practicing with them for about a week and decided to get a Valkyrie because I read they fly the farthest and my drives already go around 250-300 ft on average (I have gotten the occasional over 300ft to around 400ft, but I refer to that as an accident) and thought the Valkyrie would give me an edge on distance. I can't throw back hand for drives and be reliable so I have been throwing side arm (or front hand) which is also what I did in high school, and I can throw straight and low with the Diablo fairly regularly, and even bring it up a bit for predictable "S" curves.
My fist day practicing with the Valkyrie MADE ME WANT TO CHUCK THE %@$&^& THING INTO THE WOODS and hope it didn't magically roll back to my feet. It would fly beautifully for around 100 feet into the turn, it would then start to fade at around 130 ft (at a fairly high speed) go vertical with the ground at about 140-160 and roll unpredictably (well... I say unpredictably but if I threw it high it seemed to go right and low it went left). When I dropped the nose it seemed to mirror, shorten and accentuate the flight pattern but still do the same exact thing, and when I lifted the nose it would just flop over and roll on the turn. I would throw the Diablo at the same speed/angle (as I could manage) as the Valkyrie and got dependable curves distance and stable flight with little to no rolling.

This is an average of about 10 throws each alternating and trying to throw the discs flat and not to high.

Image

Remember I am a RHFH thrower.
I think I'm throwing the Valkyrie to hard, any experienced opinions?
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Re: Valkyrie Rolling on fade...

Postby Apothecary » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:43 pm

youre oating it (run a search for "off-axis torque"). throw it with a little bit of hyzer and smooth out your action to counteract the wobbles early on.

or throw a different (more overstable) disc.

and for the love of christ, learn to throw backhand.
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Re: Valkyrie Rolling on fade...

Postby Whiz » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:13 pm

You are "OATing" it, as the previous poster said. When you are throwing your forehand make sure to finish with your palm facing the sky. An analogy I use when teaching people to throw sidearm is to imagine you have water cupped in your throwing hand and you want to throw without spilling the water. The other less drastic method of Off Axis Torque is to run-up from the back left of the teepad to the front right which will pull your weight off the axis of the throw. For a flat to hyzer shot which you do not want to turn over your runup when throwing a RHFH should be from the back right to the front left of the teepad. Give these two things a try and they should cure your valkyrie of its rolling troubles.
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Re: Valkyrie Rolling on fade...

Postby Beetard » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:51 pm

Calm down and stop trying to throw it so hard. Put the power into your follow-through, not the start up.

Forehand is an easier throw to fix and get right than backhand is. For me, when I shortened my reachback ( a lot) and put force into the actual flick at the end that sends the disc flying, I gained 100 extra feet and didn't need discs that were as overstable.

Your valkyrie isn't fading, it's doing the opposite; turning and burning. Unless you're putting crazy wicked power on your forehand (sends discs 430' plus regularly) you'll be able to throw it straight if you learn some finesse.

If you keep looking for discs that work for your throw, you'll only reinforce what you're doing wrong-the thing that is making your discs turn left until they roll. That's a shot too by the way, the forehand roller. You just have to learn to control the degree the disc is standing up when it lands.
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Re: Valkyrie Rolling on fade...

Postby Redisculous » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:10 pm

If you've got the bug and want to do some drills to improve your distance and clean up your forehand refer to the drills in the "incomplete" secret technique thread here in the technique section (and make sure you tape up your fingers where Blake says to, and any other place they start to get raw, trust me). The maxing out at 300' thread has a lot of good info on how to throw backhand as well. It's a lot of reading but at least go through to page 12 if you decide to read it.
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Re: Valkyrie Rolling on fade...

Postby sparkyahs » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:15 pm

Thanks for all the info, I have been looking at the "OAT" explanations as well as the sticky of the "incomplete" secret technique. I found out a bit to late on the duct tape idea, as I already have a blood blister from the disc leaving my hand on the course (even though I'm a construction worker). My shoulder was a bit to sore today to put any of these techniques in practice so hopefully with the stretching/massaging I have been doing today I will be able to throw a few tomorrow. Instead of trying to muscle it out there I'll slow it down and work on my snap/release and compare the Valkyrie to the Diablo side by side again trying to get them to land in the same area . As for backhand... I haven't given up and on shorter drives with less technical holes I attempt it but it feels awkward and hasn't put me at any more (usually less) advantage then forehand. I do put backhand dominantly.
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Re: Valkyrie Rolling on fade...

Postby JR » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:27 am

Two quick fixes for FH OAT are to stand still and start the disc from your side and throw with the arm very slowly with the muscles loose until the arm is almost straight pointing at the target and then accelerate hard like you would do pounding a nail in with one hit. The other thing is called plane preservation and it's the same for FH and BH. If you move the arm with a 10 degree hyzer the arm needs to follow through on the same plane. Like the arm would move on top of a plank from the side to the disc release to follow through with the arm at the follow through were the 10 degree above horizon line will take it. If you miss low of this height the disc will turn and burn or wobble or both.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Valkyrie Rolling on fade...

Postby sparkyahs » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:08 am

Sorry no update... it was to windy to throw (for trouble shooting) today... so I went fishing and caught a barely legal bass, which was better then anyone else on the pond we were fishing at :D. I called it a happy mistake that it ended up on my hook. I will however be trying to contact the park operators/caretaker that I was fishing at because there was about 6-9 holes worth of land that was hilly with older tree's that seemed to be unused space (scenery within a walking trail beyond the pond) in Katy, TX. From what I know this would be a real asset to the disk golf courses in this area. For Houston and the surrounding area 10-20 ft. elevation changes on any hole seems rare (according to this forums reviews), and I saw at least 3 holes that could easily be put in with a 20ft+ elevation change, one straight (15ft wide and 300+ft) and two RHBH anhyzers (around 280-350ft). I can't see it being a long driving course but it is possible that they may listen to suggestions because this is a township run park, the pond is stocked every other weekend with different fish depending on the season. They even stock rainbow trout which die in July and August heat. There is also a dog park and a put-put golf course on the property all for free. When I get contact info I will post it if anyone in the Katy area that plays want's to have a say in where there town's tax dollars go.

Before you tell me I don't know what a hilly course is if I live in Texas, while I was in high school I lived in Iowa and played the original 18 hole course in Rodeo Park near Ft. Madison. It's the one with the steps that has a rope railing to climb them between the tee and the hole.

Sorry I has been drinkin before this post.
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Re: Valkyrie Rolling on fade...

Postby sparkyahs » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:01 pm

Ok, I played a bit today and was able to correct the burn and turn issue, thank you.
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Re: Valkyrie Rolling on fade...

Postby Beetard » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:40 pm

Excellent. You should find that you can shape lines better and get more distance with less effort from discs that aren't overstable meathooks.

Just be careful with that forehand shot. I've literally destroyed my shoulder and elbow from it- given myself chronic injuries that flare up if I throw forehand.

I wish I would have forgotten about it and started trying to learn backhand earlier in my disc golfing days.
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Re: Valkyrie Rolling on fade...

Postby sparkyahs » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:29 pm

Beetard wrote:Just be careful with that forehand shot. I've literally destroyed my shoulder and elbow from it- given myself chronic injuries that flare up if I throw forehand.


Agreed, I have been laying off disc golf for a bit because after a few dozen practice throws my shoulder felt like it was on fire, and that was with the slow in quick out hit the nail with the hammer technique. Fishing has been lower impact, and I will be throwing again in a week or two when some personal issues clear up and it should give my shoulder plenty of time to heal. I will also be working on my back hand but no promises that I'll switch lol.
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