Blake_T wrote:threads like these tend to put me into a bit of a rant mainly because there's no set doctrine for every player, especially when everyone tends to approaching "learning the game" at different times along their progression.
as Mark has pointed out, and i agree, natural talent and playing time tend to breed the best players. the guys who are naturally athletic, figure stuff out on their own, and play 10 rounds a day are usually the guys who become dominant pros.
practice, mental strength, and smart play can elevate a player of lesser talent to a level similar to players of greater talent, but if the players of greater talent put in an equal amount of practice and have equal mental strength and smart play they should win pretty much every time.
the thing is, those with natural talent don't tend to seek instruction (as frequently) as those who lack natural talent, so most advice can (and probably should) be targeted at those with less natural talent... read as: people who plateau quickly and on a lower level than most who put in an equal amount of time and money. those with great talent tend to just play and figure it out or watch other players who can do what they want to do and then figure it out.
anyone who isn't proficient with a wide-rimmed distance driver is at a distinct disadvantage to someone that is. at the same time, the majority of the time players find themselves "stuck" are often due to those same types of discs. (as parks has pointed out) players that started after 2001 are face a steeper learning curve than those who started before then. it was around 2003-2004 (post-orc and crush) that i started having to spend 50% of my lesson work trying to get rid of people's OAT.
if those same players naturally develop form that creates enough disc speed to manipulate the flight of those discs, they are usually just fine. however, it's the players that don't naturally develop said form that end up posting their questions here and the result is the standard answers that tend to be reiterated.
from my experiences with lesson-work, most people don't put in enough "good" practice to move along the learning curve with enough speed to satisfy them. it kind of puzzles me in this regard. go to a local driving range and you'll find 50 hackers that are willing to hit 200 bad golf shots at the range twice a week. when people start in golf they are usually given 3-5 clubs (5 wood, 5 iron, 7 iron, putter, or something along those lines) and taught to add clubs as they establish proficiency with those clubs. the early-on club shorting leads to learning how to adjust power and swing to get different results at a much faster pace than if they had 13 clubs. their end goal isn't to own the course with 5 clubs in their bag, but to be good at hitting every club in their bag because they learned how to be "good at hitting."
you might not realize how difficult it is to convince a crappy newbie that they won't get better (very quickly) if they carry a max weight boss and a putter. those that have tried to impart this idea on others tend to get very vocal about it because 60% of the time it feels like you're banging your head against the wall.
the other thing that people rarely get to is the subtle advanced techniques of the throw. in ball golf you might find some guy who can hit a titanium oversized 1-wood with a teeny tiny sweet spot 350 yards perfectly straight... but if they were trying to learn how to hit a draw or fade that probably isn't the club to do it with. learning it with an easier to hit club and then applying what you have learned to any club is really the goal of that.
teaching someone to apply OAT to a shot to shape its flight doesn't work if they have to use tons of OAT just to keep it from stabling out. similarly, trying to teach someone to throw 40' high and nose down is an absolute beyotch if the rim is wide.
giving a direct answer to peot:
experiment with whatever you want to but develop a set of priorities. short term success vs. long term potential. accuracy vs. distance. control vs. distance. etc.
if you do want to jump to some speed, be smart about it. do you probably have enough power to throw a boss, halo, destroyer, etc really well? probably not. could you find a way to do it? probably. would that way you find probably murder your form? probably.
do you have enough power to throw a valk, beast, viking, flash, SL, orion LS, wildcat, monarch? most likely.
will those discs yield a significant distance jump over most fairway drivers? maybe, but probably not more than 5-7%. will they prep you to throw faster/wider drivers? yes.
I thought that was a really fine answer, well thought out and described. Sometimes in this forum an answer is so good it sort of stops discussion, which is a shame because it means that fewer people will read it and benefit from it.
Blake mentioned one aspect which was swirling around in my head but I couldn't figure out what to do with it or how to include it. Wyno asked why bother to teach if gifted athletes were destined to become Pros anyway. Part of my motivation to teach this game is to allow players of average raw talent to compete with those who won the genetic lottery. Disc Golf is a particular game which allows DEVELOPED SKILLS to trump TALENT. And part of my motivation is to allow aging athletes to find a sport they can play and enjoy for as long as they can walk.
You can't fake or overcome speed and strength. So the non-athlete has no chance in a sport like pole vaulting or sprinting or well known sports like baseball, basketball and football. But sports like disc golf or billiards or racquetball (and many others) demand and reward precision and strategy. I would guess that there are very few, if any, current members of Professional baseball or basketball or football teams who could beat me in a game of disc golf tomorrow even with their age and talent advantage. If those athletes cared enough many (all?) of them could beat me a year from now. I find it entertaining that with enough practice and dedication a player of average skills can masquerade as an athlete.
Blake has thought and borrowed a lot during a long period of time. It is good to mull over what he has to say in detail.
What I had to learn, was this made my form/timing break down to some degree, and it kept me from getting the distance I "should" from my drivers. I think this is overlooked by many players, I didn't notice it myself until I was told my form looked different when throwing drivers...
