Middle finger drag causes?

[mshelton]

Recently I've been having middle finger release and drag problems, causing the disc to either wobble right or go up, weak and fade out to the left (RHBH).

I'll have this problem on both drivers and midranges, I use the regular power grip with my drivers and I have my middle and ring finger semi fanned on my mids with my pinky sitting on the bead (or where it would be). With drivers it will rip off my middle finger badly and with the mids I feel it scraping off the pad of my middle finger.

Is this something that may be caused by not enough pinch pressure?

[Beetard]

Most grips will have little catch points where you don't want them. Maybe try stacking your middle finger on top of your index finger? (pad of middle finger on nail of index finger)

[Ryan C]

I had the same problem. I used to use a standard power grip for drives, and a different grip for mids and putters. My mids and putters grip is just like a power grip, except that my middle finger extends straight out onto the flight plate. Obviously, I was frustrated that my drivers were never coming out as clean as my mids, but if I used my midrange grip on my drivers, I wasn't getting enough grip strength.

I solved this by going with basically the Climo grip, or, depending on the disc, a double stack fork grip. The Climo grip is where your pinky goes down, and the ring and middle fingers sort of stack down on top of it, kind of like a fan grip. The double stack fork is where the ring finger stacks down on top of the pinky, just like the Climo grip, but the middle finger is placed on top of the index finger instead. I get a little more snap and power with this, but a little less control. Both of these grips make it so there are only 2 contact points, and both take the middle finger out of the equation. Making this switch really helped me. It is worth messing with, at least.

[DiscJay]

Switching back to the Climo grip from a three finger grip fixed my middle finger drag issues. It also had an immediate positive effect on distance and accuracy.

[rusch_bag]

I have noticed I throw off of my middle finger and tried to fix it forever and just sort of gave up. Think this is hurting my distance?

[DiscJay]

I have noticed I throw off of my middle finger and tried to fix it forever and just sort of gave up. Think this is hurting my distance?

I really think it was hurting my distance. It creates more drag and when I would do wrist extension drills while trying to pound the hammer my middle finger would stop the disc from rotating fully around my index finger and thumb. So it could be hurting your distance in that way also. I wouldn't say definitely, but it sure seems highly likely. I'd rather some of the better experts chime in with more definite diagnoses.

[rusch_bag]

Also, does anyone have any drills or tips to throwing off of your index finger instead of your middle?

[rusch_bag]

By the way, even when I used the climo grip, I still manged to rip off of my middle finger somehow?

[DiscJay]

Try tweaking it a bit? Not sure what to say other than keep working with it until you find a variation that works. Maybe Beto or Blake or someone will chime in with better advice than I can give.

[JR]

I've had finger drag issues and i tried to rectify them by using a two finger grip. At first i thought i was ok when i got more D and after finger strength training didn't get warm weather slips to the left. It turned out that i get micro slips where the disc flies to the direction i want but without disc pivot. So i need to switch grip while strengthening fingers. Two fingers cured OAT but still hurt form. I need to practice with different grips. One reason for late acceleration arm yank instead of a steady acceleration was trying to build up strength to load up the tendons maximally and the other major goal was to try to force a maximally abrupt rip to get a clean non drag release. Success to the point of form failure without the disc pivot.

I need to test out all the variations with a high speed camera and see how far each grip/acceleration point/acceleration rate combo flies for me with and without form flaws. Assuming my throwing arm index finger pain doesn't cause subconscious early release. I've heard that there are no muscles in the fingers so it's a tendon that is sore. And it is months before tendons cure if they are hurt bad. I stress it at work so even not throwing or working out may not help before the season. Which starts in one month in Holland for me.

I've got my work cut out for me so it will probably take at least this summer before i gather enough data and hopefully skills to improve.

[MrScoopa]

Also, does anyone have any drills or tips to throwing off of your index finger instead of your middle?

Masterbeato has mentioned getting the feeling by just gripping the disc with the index and thumb.

What solidified the feeling for me was doing Blake's flip-back exercise.

The Flip-Back

The second failed attempt at Part 4 I termed the flip-back. Do a sidearm hammer pound (drill #4) but pay attention to the finishing point like in Part 5. If your grip is well-suited to the hammer pound you should notice that your wrist is closed almost all the way and that your finger-tips are naturally pulling into your palm. At this end point something should be interesting: it basically looks like the backhand hammer pound starting grip position.

Shift now to a 2-finger backhand grip. Pound the hammer and focus on snapping it at the end. With only a 2-finger grip the disc should pivot through the hand and stop at the sidearm hammer pound starting grip position.

Basically, you should be able to flip back and forth between a 2-finger backhand grip and a 2-finger sidearm grip.

WATCH VIDEO: flipback.divx

Why this is useful in the slightest even though it's a failure

The backhand to sidearm grip flip teaches the feel for the disc pivot in the hand that initiates the sling. Why this drill fails is that it doesn't teach the timing of the motions. You can have poor timing and still get a pivot. A firm, quick, explosive pivot happens when there's only a slight "nudge" initiating it. That nudge is the pre-cursor to the final sling in a full hit backhand throw (although their motions are nearly simultaneous, it's really a very fast sequence).

Both myself and Dan have had a few students who had success in this way, mostly with players who were throwing 360-380' and pushing them to 430-450' when they had this feel down.

I do this like crazy before each drive. Now, it feels wrong to throw without the pivot and ripping off the index. The speed the disc leaves your hand doubles once you get it going. I had a little flutter problem at first. What fixed that was paying more attention the my thumb pressure.

If you watch Feldberg before he drives he does a little practice pivot.

Bradley also demonstrates it in his snap video#2 at about 1:12.

Practice letting the disc do that slinging motion around the index and thumb. Let that feeling be the guide for your throw.

[JHern]

I can see how this can be confusing, and what the fingers do has never been adequately explained here or elsewhere. We use terms like lock, pivot, etc., but nobody has ever explained the process in detail. When you see the Climo grip, all the fingers are dug in hard under the rim and pressing into it like hell. When a pro throws with the Climo grip (middle and ring fingernails pressed against the flight plate, tips hard against the inside of the rim), these fingers are all squeezing like crazy and pulling the disc forward from the inside of the rim. You'd think that there is absolutely no way that the disc will be able to rip out of the hand, and you'd be right if they stayed in that configuration. In a fraction of a second all these other fingers are "poof" out of the way and the disc is pivoting around the index finger tip and thumb. I've never really thought about this myself, but where in the world do these other fingers go? I think I just relax them, somehow, while keeping the index-thumb lock compressed. Then the other fingers just release and slide off under the disc nose. Or maybe I actively open these fingers off and away from the rim? Good question, I don't even know the answer myself!

I do know that if my index-thumb lock feels weak I'll unconsciously let my middle finger get in on the action as well, but its right next to the index finger so the pivot is not affected so much. Indeed, I've gotten some of my strongest snaps this way.

[Redisculous]

Having just re-read the grip article on the main page, I think I have figured out why I have been ripping off my middle finger.

Some time ago I watched the Feldberg video on grip, where he shows his grip that has the middle and ring fingers tips pointed at the rim, and the pads of the index and pinky on the rim, almost a 90 degree difference in the finger orientation.

This felt comfortable to me and I had been using it ever since on my drivers. Recently I realized I was ripping off my middle finger pretty often and after some self-analysis concluded that I was pressing upwards, opposing the thumb pressure with my index finger instead of into my hand as recomended in the grip article. I haven't had a chance to try this but it makes complete sense to me. My middle finger is longer than my index finger, and since it was pulling into my hand, directly opposing the weight/pivot of the disc, it was creating a much stronger rip point. I'm positive that this will solve my problem, and I'm posting it hoping that it helps someone else as well.

Also, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Feldberg's grip, that would be ridiculous, I just misunderstood and was applying pressure incorrectly.