Need some starter help

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Need some starter help

Postby stinlin » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:22 pm

I only started playing regularly last year. I've tried really hard to read up on techniques and no-no's to make sure that I don't find myself learning bad technique, but I feel like something's wrong with my throw. I go out to play (when it's nice) 4-6 times a week...I try and get a round in everyday after work if I can. So I play often enough I think. I recently spent a few hours throwing on a football field, too, hoping to become a bit more regular in my throwing distance, flight path, etc.

I throw RHBH, fyi. Recently, I've been driving with my Avenger SS and Valkyrie, and mid-ranging my Buzzz, Wraith, and Comet. Short range, I throw a Roc or a Shark depending on what I pull out of my bag (they feel and fly so similar to me). I've read through the "start here" thread, but I still seem to find myself having the same problems. Pardon my lack of lingo prowess here...I'm going to try and outline my problem and give my thought on what's up, and hopefully someone can help me! :)

- Too often, my release feels late and the disc goes way far right. So I'm having trouble timing my release.

- Releasing such that the disc is tilted to the right (so it's not flat, no better way for me to describe it!) and it never turns over. I think this is me not releasing flat.

- I realize discs are supposed to turn over and fall left in my case, but the flight path of most of my discs when I do throw it somewhat straight, is to go straight-ish and then break really hard left. Almost like an L I'm not sure how to fix this at all.

I appreciate any help ya'll can give. Looking forward to improving my game. :)
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby Wordgie » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:23 pm

Get outta my head, man. I'm having the same issues. I think the release has to do with either the foot placement pulling you right or just a late release. That's my newb self assessment anyway.
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby Ironhide » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:11 pm

As a RHBH thrower, the discs will always end up going left if you throw it flat, that is just the physics of the disc. From a newbie stand point (talking about me :P ). The Wraith for sure is probably too strong of a disc for you and the Avenger SS and Valk might be border line strong for you. I'm sure you may noticed those 3 discs in particular fade 'harder' left than your mids. The Buzzz, Comet, Roc, Shark generally speaking will have the same flight characteristics and these discs should be easier for you to throw and not fade left as hard. This has a little factor to it, but what are the weight of your discs? There's alot of reasons why you could be releasing at an angle, grip, arm position, body position, etc, so it's kind of hard to pin point it without seeing you actually throw. And someone please correct me if I'm wrong please I'm trying to learn the process myself! :)
My Bag: DX - Aviar Putter - 170g & 175g | DX - Shark - 168g | DX - Roc - 168g & 175g | Pro-D Buzz - 170g | Champion - Leopard - 171g | Star - Teebird(TL) - 171g | DX/Star - Sidewinder - 168g/171g | DX - Beast - 170g
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby swel304 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:58 pm

the most common mistake I see in newer players is that they do not pull the disc straight across the chest, they start at chest, dip to the waist, then back up to the chest around release. that causes bad release angle, nose up, ect ect.. another common one is curling the hand around the disc in the reach back. I also see alot of "galloping" down the teepad which can cause this kind of issue. It is really hard to say without seeing your throws. If you have access to a video camera set it up and tape yourself throwing multiple drives. You dont upload them for us if you dont want to. just note on the video how each drive turned out after you throw it so you have some reference when you review the video to look for things you are doing wrong.

to the OP: the wraith is not a midrange disc and you are probably teaching yourself bad habits trying to throw it as such. If discs like the buzzz and roc are going straight and then fading that hard for you then i would guess you arent getting them up to cruising speed and shouldnt be worried about throwing the "big d" drivers. the 10 extra feet you get out of a high speed driver is useless without accuracy and numeric score is not always a good measure of your improvement.

everyone wants bid D, but it will come in time. if you can throw a disc 200ft accurately then you can easily par a 400ft hole and have a much better chance of picking up birdies on the 200ft and less holes. a 400ft drive is useless if a 100 ft upshot lands 100ft left of the basket or a 20ft putt flies 30ft past it.
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby JR » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:40 pm

You are lacking a class of discs between the midranges and distance drivers that is fairway drivers. They are only a little faster than mids and Innova Leopard for example has minimal fade in DX plastic once it breaks in. It comes in more durable plastics that fade just a little more so it may be more useful on holes that need a left finish. It sounds that you don't throw fast enough for the Wraith so it would be useful only for overhead throws and hard hooks and skip shots. And severe headwinds.

Are you holding the disc in your hand outer edge below horizon, flat or above horizon? If above there's one reason for tilting the disc clockwise and starting flying to the right. If you plant the final step to the left of the line you are running on it will tilt your body to the right and cause the disc to fly initially with a clockwise tilt. That's called an anhyzer angle.

Hard fade left at the end of the flight can be caused up by nose up throws. That is the front of the disc is higher than the rear. Usual culprits are reaching back low releasing high, leaning backward and not pushing the wrist down.

Late releases may come from reaching back left and releasing right. Or pulling the disc far away from the body. Usual beginner advice is to pull the disc in a straight line close to the body. Inches count in the closeness.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby stinlin » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:46 am

Thanks for the tips everyone. It looks like the weather is supposed to take a dive this weekend (of course, work week is beautiful, weekends come and rain), but as soon as I'm able to, I'll go play a round and try and get my friend to take some video of me so I can upload it and get some help. Reading about it and trying to "fix it" that way is one thing, but having people be able to see and critique me on specific parts of my throw would be much more helpful.

And I totally understand the whole argument on distance at this stage in the game. Finding good discs to learn with is hard when I find so many differing opinions (example being the Avenger and Valk - I read that those are great starter discs for drivers, but apparently they might be too fast?). So I ask, seeing as I also may be missing a class of discs in my bag, what should I pick up? I'll try and list everything I own so I can maybe figure it out from there...

Groove
Monarch
Valkyrie
Avenger SS
Wraith
TL
Buzzz
Comet
Roc
Shark
Putter (can't remember which one)

The Groove and Monarch were some of the first discs I bought last year sometime because they looked cool, haha (trans pink and blue). I realize they are definitely out of my skill range at the moment. Thanks again everyone. :)
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby JR » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:13 am

How does the TL work for you? It is a fairway driver so you may not need another one. They are going early to the left and hard if they have flash (mold imperfection that is sharp) in the bottom of the disc and once it is removed it is way straighter and longer. It is the next step up from a Leopard so maybe you could do with it once the flash is gone. It depends on your power. At 200' it will probably fade a lot even without the flash but if you have 250' or more it is gonna become much straighter and versatile. TL is a good disc because it stays useful even for 400' throwers. The role may change but still. Avenger SS is an odd disc with a low power requirement but i got my first one when i had too much power for it for anything else than rolling. It is designed to fade but it also flips easily with power. That is why the TL should still be a superior disc. It isn't meant to fade hard at the end.

Comet is a great torture disc that either shows what you do wrong mercilessly until you learn or has you quitting playing altogether. So maybe it's better to use other mids at this point to get the basics right and once you are fine with those then the Comet is a great strict sensei. For beginners it is just cruel if they develop power before finesse.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby stinlin » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:21 am

JR wrote:How does the TL work for you? It is a fairway driver so you may not need another one. They are going early to the left and hard if they have flash (mold imperfection that is sharp) in the bottom of the disc and once it is removed it is way straighter and longer. It is the next step up from a Leopard so maybe you could do with it once the flash is gone. It depends on your power. At 200' it will probably fade a lot even without the flash but if you have 250' or more it is gonna become much straighter and versatile. TL is a good disc because it stays useful even for 400' throwers. The role may change but still. Avenger SS is an odd disc with a low power requirement but i got my first one when i had too much power for it for anything else than rolling. It is designed to fade but it also flips easily with power. That is why the TL should still be a superior disc. It isn't meant to fade hard at the end.

Comet is a great torture disc that either shows what you do wrong mercilessly until you learn or has you quitting playing altogether. So maybe it's better to use other mids at this point to get the basics right and once you are fine with those then the Comet is a great strict sensei. For beginners it is just cruel if they develop power before finesse.


Haha I was thinking something along those lines about the Comet. When I throw it good, it soars, but holy cow, it is grossly unforgiving. I love the TL - again, good form is important here, but when I do get it right, this disc flies nice for me. I think I need to develop a more refined pull and figure out how to release so that the disc a) goes where I want and b) doesn't get all tilty on me.
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby Ironhide » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:50 am

Every summer I try to have a 'feedback' disc and throw out in a field for awhile and see if I can get it the right path. Last year it was the sidewinder, this year it is the beast. Basically the same disc, but requires more power and will not turn/fade as much as the sidewinder.

But from your bag I would play regular rounds with...

TL
Buzzz
Comet
Roc
Shark
Putter (can't remember which one)

I'm probably wrong, but are you sure you're not overpowering the comet? Looking at the chart it has a 1 rating for power, so shouldn't be too terribly hard to throw. I was thinking of a feedback disc for you would probably be the Avenger SS since it has a power rating of 4 and I'd guess you're in the 2-3 range. If you are able to throw it flat and properly, it should give you a relatively balanced "s" shape shot without fading hard.
My Bag: DX - Aviar Putter - 170g & 175g | DX - Shark - 168g | DX - Roc - 168g & 175g | Pro-D Buzz - 170g | Champion - Leopard - 171g | Star - Teebird(TL) - 171g | DX/Star - Sidewinder - 168g/171g | DX - Beast - 170g
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby stinlin » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:31 am

So I figured I'd give a little update since there were some nice tips here. I've only been out twice since I posted (stupid weather...) and brought the Avenger SS, TL, Buzzz, Comet, Shark, Roc, and Putter. The first thing I realized is how important the right set of discs is. I mean, I would place it in the top 3 things that will make the difference for a newer player like myself. While I have ~1 year under my belt, I never focused on the specific aspects of my game that would make me a better player - I just went out and threw the disc (which didn't always result in fun due to the issues I was trying to fix).

The other huge thing I realized was regarding the comment of pulling the disc close to your chest. I think I was treating my arm almost like a pendulum with the pivot point at my shoulder. This was creating some messed up throws and lines. When I focus on leading the throw with my elbow and ripping the disc across my chest, I was seeing significantly better results (250'+ vs 150'+). I mean, it was night and day in terms of the way my discs flew and the distance they got. Pairing this with a solid follow through and using my other arm as a counter weight (rather than keeping it stiff), there were some throws that I was just downright impressed with out of myself.

So I think I'm armed with a few pieces of knowledge that will get me through the next few months of playing. I'm sure I'll be back here as the summer pushes in, but until then, I'm thinking this will be a much more satisfying start than I had expected. Thanks again everyone. :)
Last edited by stinlin on Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby JR » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:39 am

Congratulations!!! I look forward to hear from your progress.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby Ironhide » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:14 am

Nice Job! Ya, using the right disc makes a huge difference especially when you get into higher speeds + premium plastics. Just out of curiosity, what are the weights of your discs?
My Bag: DX - Aviar Putter - 170g & 175g | DX - Shark - 168g | DX - Roc - 168g & 175g | Pro-D Buzz - 170g | Champion - Leopard - 171g | Star - Teebird(TL) - 171g | DX/Star - Sidewinder - 168g/171g | DX - Beast - 170g
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby stinlin » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:03 am

They are all in the 170-175g range (I think one or two are 168 and 176, but I can't remember for sure).
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby swel304 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:47 pm

+100ft in two days? very nice.

this video may be a little ahead of where you are but for me this was the one that finally made some things "click" and got me from around 290 up to 350 almost overnight. You may have already seen it but I figured i would share anyway.

http://discraft.com/vid/html/dg16.html
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Re: Need some starter help

Postby stinlin » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:28 pm

I think the improved distance is largely because I was doing it wrong - like, all wrong, haha. And I have not seen that video yet, no. Thanks! :) It's always great to have things like that to watch and (try) to absorb as I improve.
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