Slowing it down

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Slowing it down

Postby ashley » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:27 pm

My husband has been trying to get me to do this for a long time. Smooth is far, smooth is far. He is a much better player than I am so I should listen right? He has spent a lot of time reading here, and it has really improved his game. I have spent quite a bit of time reading here as of late, and trying a lot of different things. I have been spending a lot of time in the field working on my drives lately, and on Sunday he took me out and was helping me again(for the five millionth time)

Well it finally clicked. He had me just working on getting my hips around and keeping the disc flat. By focusing on those two things, it really helped to smooth out my throw, and I really got it. Now this isn't to say that I am crushing them 400 feet or anything, but the consistency was really noticeable.

I went out and played a round today, but before I started I went to the field and threw 50 drives or so working on what he had taught me. Then I started my round. I must say I was blown away to say the least. I mostly stuck to my slower drivers, after reading some on the topic, I realized that I too have small fingers and the smaller rimmed discs are the best fit for my hand.

I mostly drove with a leopard and a teebird, and I shot the best round I have to date at my home course. My previous record was a 58, which was still 3 shots better than my average there, but today I shot a 55.

I talked to my husband today, and decided that the direction my game is finally going is exactly where I want it to be. I am not going to worry about the distance, and am going to continue to focus on my putting and getting my hips around, and I believe that the distance will continue to come as I gain more confidence. But even if it doesn't I think that having a consistent drive will get me quite far.
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby JR » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:08 pm

Congratulations Ashley! If you maintain that level you just changed your division to a higher one :-)

In most cases accuracy and consistency comes before distance when you are going for good scores on the course. Now you know why :-) Juliana Korver said she won't throw at over 80 % power unless it is uphill. Good enough advice for five world titles. Disc choice is also important and Leo plus Teebird have the added bonus of not fading drastically so they stay on the line farther and veer off less while maintaining height.
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby ashley » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:02 pm

Played another round at the home course today. Threw some of my longest drives ever on 4,6,8(not so good as I out drove it by 50 feet) 9, and 16. My lines are looking better. Only shot a 57 today, but with all the wind I was pretty happy.
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby n3tw0rkn3rd » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:39 am

This is cool to hear. I'll have to start working with my wife on disc a bit more :) Thanks for sharing your success!

One note to mention. You stated above that you were going to stick to slower drivers because of your smaller hands. I can't recommend it enough that you stick to this decision. A few years back I started tinkering with the new discs coming out because they were so fast. I'd thrown a Beast for years and it fit me well. I went to the Destroyer and a few others, and the knuckle on my middle finger is a bit messed up because of it. It took me a couple years to realize what had caused it, but I had been getting pain in that knuckle after every round, and I finally realized it was because of the width of the Destroyer's rim which was simply too big for my hand. I noticed that it was common for my pinky and ring fingers to come off the rim right before release, leaving all that stress on the middle finger. After I realized this, I stopped throwing wide rimmed drivers (still kind of want to when I see these fun looking high speed drivers come out). The 20-40' addition you get on your drive isn't worth messing up your fingers :-/ Fortunately, I can still play, but that finger can have a decent amount of pain on occasion (weather changes mostly).

Anyhow, congrats on everything clicking and the awesome rounds!
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby JHern » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:10 pm

Good stuff. Staying with the slowest possible plastic that you can throw on a hole is a great decision. But do be aware that some courses/holes will reward throwing high speed drivers (if you can throw them well), while others will not.

For example, I live within 20 minutes of 4 great courses (DeLaveaga, Pinto Lake, Black Mouse, Aptos HS), which are all very different. Pinto Lake has a lot of long open bombers (but with relatively tight OB), requiring good distance and accuracy in the landing (need to think about skips too), while DeLaveaga has only a couple long bombers and bunch of very technical holes (mostly wooded) ranging from short to long, right, left, uphill, downhill, etc.. Aptos has a great combination of open and tight holes, topography, and wind. Black Mouse is a pure finesse course with extreme topography, playing through large redwood forest on the side of a mountain. My game has to change a lot depending on which course I play, and so does my disc selection. I need my wide-rimmed long-range drivers to throw well at Pinto Lake. At DeLaveaga, I need as many kinds of discs as I can fit in my bag, but the most utilized are always my Buzzz, my Wizard, my Cyclone, and my Wraith. At Black Mouse I don't even need a driver, while Aptos HS is a good slow disc course.

What was my point? Anyways, yes, throwing the slowest disc you can on a given hole is good. But don't completely disown the high speed drivers because you might encounter scenarios where they are truly very useful.
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Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby ashley » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:28 pm

I think that as far as I can or can't throw, I have yet to find a disc over a speed 9 that I can throw consistently. My best driver is my 150 Valkyrie, which I can get out as far as about 330'. However, my leopard and teebird I can throw 250' almost every time right down the middle, and my 163 Valk is more like 260-280 most of the time.

The course I play the most right now is a good mix of short wooded holes, and longer more open holes. I find that placement is the most important here.

I think that my game just hasn't reached the level where throwing a 10 11 or higher is really within my range or ability to control consistently. In fact, I have come to the conclusion that it might never get to that level. Trust me I would love to throw a big driver, my husband throws them really well. But I don't think my power level is there at this point. When I first started playing, I was throwing orcs all the time, but even they were too much for me so I started rolling my wrist to compensate. It took me a long time to break that habit, and I don't want to go back to that.

I played doubles last night, and even though my partner out drove me a lot of the time, we still took 7 of my drives, and I hit 2 putts that he had missed, so I feel like my game is still coming along nicely.
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby masterbeato » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:04 pm

ashley,

i highly suggest when practicing in the field or wherever (preferably in the field because you get more done there) is to throw stand-still shots for a couple of hours, and concentrate on your "hit" point. stand with the disc in your hand in front of you with your thumb pointing forward, and then do your reach back and pull through from a stand-still position, and try to release the disc with your thumb forward (towards your target).

that will give you a clean release, with a lot of speed on the disc after the release.

aka throwing far and on line!

here are the steps to make this easier:
1) stand with the disc out in front of you and point your thumb towards the target (disc will be nose down orientation and wrist will be extended; palm facing forward).

2) when you pull through to throw just try to get to step 1's point and force the disc out of your hand.

note: it is a ton easier to get the timing of this down if you do this as you are doing the right pec drill.
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby JHern » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:10 pm

I've been trying to teach a couple ladies how to throw backhand, who are forehand dominant (both are very good players already, placing at the top of advanced women division). You're already throwing 330' with a Valkyrie, which is great! It sounds like you have a lot of potential to develop big D, and DGR is the right place to come for wisdom and advice.

Since it isn't easy to build up arm speed, learning to snap a disc out like Masterbeato describes is definitely the best thing to do, for gains in distance (and accuracy) without requiring a great deal of effort or strength. Watching Paige Pierce, Valarie Jenkins, Sharon Jenkins, and other top pro ladies throw I can ensure that this is exactly their method (and they throw farther than 99% of guys). Get the elbow out forward and then use your weight shift, hip, torso, and shoulder rotation to whip the forearm around, keep your hand on the other side of the disc, and focus your violence (summon the grrr!) on the hit point, forcing the disc to rip off your index and/or middle finger. Accelerate through the hit, which will result in a good follow through.

I noticed this great video of Paige Pierce throwing backhand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBQ4SkpWpRU

...you can really see the disc go into the hit with slower velocity and come out of the hit like a bullet. In that one flash of an instant, the disc gains twice the speed that the arm is able to give it. Snap (aka "cracking the whip") is a speed multiplier, using the leverage of the wrist and fingers to sling the disc out around the pivot, much like a trebuchet. One has to start slow at first, to get the rhythm of the whip, and add arm speed incrementally until the action at the hit can keep up with the quicker timing of the motion. The disc is part of the whip...you literally whip it so hard that the end of the whip comes flying off in the process. This is an athletic motion, and requires training and drilling. Experimenting with different weight discs, harnessing power from your torso, etc., are all important elements.

Many of us on this board are still working on developing big snap, and for a long time much of the discussion has centered around this very topic. I'm only "half-hitting" it, able to get over 400' but still working on "full hitting" to get me up to 450'-500'. Masterbeato got it a few years ago, and absolutely crushes. Blake T's kung fu is very strong.

Anyways, welcome to the DGR quest for bigger snap!
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Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby ashley » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:37 am

Thanks for the video of paige. I think that she is just incredible. I watched that over and over and over again. I think I have figured out what I am missing. I am planning on hitting the field today, and maybe I can get some video. I was practicing in the house last night, and I COULDN'T hold on to the disc(sorry wall) that was a first for me. The first time I thought was a fluke, after the second I was told I couldn't throw in the house anymore, haha.
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby ashley » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:55 am

Went out on the course, and in the field. I still need to work on it, but my consistency was way up yesterday. Was only able to get one video, but ran out of daylight. Improved my previous round by 3 strokes(different course) even with playing the last 4 holes in little to no light. I am definitely getting more power, as my leopard was throwing like my roadrunner.

I actually birdied a 310' hole with the leopard, there was no way I was getting the leopard out that far previously. I have a hard time putting distance to drives, but I am guessing my average drive was 20 feet farther.

I am throwing valkyries almost exclusively off the tee for distance. I added a 168 to the bag, so I now carry 3 a 150,163 and 168. I love it because they all throw similiar, but the 168 is a lot better in the wind for me.
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby DsmDisc » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:50 pm

Sounds like you're making good progress! Truly, dedication to learning is the most important factor. Some of the folks I play with only make a cursory attempt to improve, and quickly go back to what they've always done. You'll never get better unless you work at it! Congrats on the improvements.

How is your approach and putting game? I found that in all last year and most of this year my approach and putting games suffered horribly as I tried to improve distance. Distance didn't really improve my scores much, but it left me with much easier second/third shots. Now that I've spent a little time thinking about the approach game my scores are dropping from +20's last year to pars this year
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby JHern » Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:09 pm

Great news! Keep up the good work, you're on pace to get onto the FPO top card in the next year, and then you can compete in person with Paige Pierce.
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby ashley » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:19 am

DsmDisc wrote:Sounds like you're making good progress! Truly, dedication to learning is the most important factor. Some of the folks I play with only make a cursory attempt to improve, and quickly go back to what they've always done. You'll never get better unless you work at it! Congrats on the improvements.

How is your approach and putting game? I found that in all last year and most of this year my approach and putting games suffered horribly as I tried to improve distance. Distance didn't really improve my scores much, but it left me with much easier second/third shots. Now that I've spent a little time thinking about the approach game my scores are dropping from +20's last year to pars this year


My approach game is my bread and butter. It is the only thing that keeps me competitive against the boys. I played a tourney yesterday, and there were 3 divisions Open, Open Masters, and Advanced. So, I played advanced. We played the long tees in the morning, and on a lot of the longer holes, the guys were outdriving me by at least 80 feet. However, my approaches were on, and I shot a 59, which put me in a tie for 3rd. The afternoon round was a little frustrating because my putts kept hitting the rim, just an inch or 2 low, dead middle. I shot a 64 even though we played the shorter tees. I have a sweet blood blister forming on my right ring finger, which I wonder how much it affected my game as the day progressed. It is quite tender right now, so I figured I would take a day or two off to let it heal a little.

I am not trying to obsess over distance at this point, but I can see how even adding 30 feet would help me on a lot of holes. Yesterday I was throwing a teebird when they were all throwing rocs. I actually outdrove both of the shorter holes by 30 feet with the teebird, thinking I may need to disc down on those shorter holes, but I am not sure I can quite get a roc out there yet. Maybe I can though, every time I went with the roc, it was doing exactly what I wanted it to do.
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Re: Slowing it down

Postby Star Shark » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:21 pm

Lots of women throw quite well. Here's a former touring pro getting big distance out of a nothing looking throw.

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Re: Slowing it down

Postby JR » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:12 am

Sounds like you're in a familiar place and it's called being between shots. You need to learn the limits and distances of your new found power with each disc on each line into every wind direction. That will naturally take time. I'm not sure if Mrs. McCoy's husband was kidding, when he wrote on during some DGP broadcast that Courtney is more like 450' now! So if you can see her make sure to talk to her and if possible try to contact her for a distance clinic. She was second at the worlds in FPO in 2005.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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