Odd observation

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Odd observation

Postby CJ1998 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:54 pm

I was throwing in a field yesterday working on some backhand shots. When I have the time, I like to work short to long, starting with some standstill drives. Then I throw full-power from a standstill, and then I go to the x-step.

I had a pretty stiff headwind, but I found I was able to put Leopards and Teebirds ~320 ft from a standstill. I managed a couple Valks out to about 370. The crazy thing is -- I couldn't duplicate that distance with the X-step, not even with the high-speed, wide-rimmed drivers. The D was pretty consistent until I started x-stepping.

FWIW, Normal D for me is mid to high 300s with fairway drivers, high 300s to low 400s with Valks/Destroyers/other wide-rimmed drivers, Low 400s with a Nuke, and personal best is ~460 with a Crank. These distances suggest that I'm not getting much benefit in terms of distance from a runup/x-step.

Any thoughts as to why? Is it a product of the wind? Inconsistencies that creep in as I add complexity to the throw?

I should repeat this process on a calmer day, but I suspect this might indicate some attention is needed when it comes to footwork.
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Re: Odd observation

Postby itlnstln » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:22 pm

More than likely, it's inconsistencies from adding the x-step and, perhaps, from trying to throw too hard. On a standstill, you're basically managing the hip rotation through the whip. With the x-step, you're now adding footwork to the mix and it might be throwing off the timing of the hips through the whip. Occasionally, I start to open up the shoulders too fast robbing power from the whip. If I slow down and focus on the hip rotation and whip, things straighten back out. On a standstill, the throw is only about the hip rotation and whip, so I'm much more consistent. You might be seeing the same thing.
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Re: Odd observation

Postby niq » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:53 pm

maybe you're not transferring your weight forward when you're doing your x-step which leads no nose-up drives? Only way to be sure would be with a video of each I guess
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Re: Odd observation

Postby JR » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:50 pm

Maybe we should look at this through the positive thing: You must have a good stand still technique. The other side of the coin is that your distances vary so much with different discs that it is hard to guess what is going on with the x steps. It is true that there are more variables thus difficulty and everything could suffer with the added speed, added muscle power requirements of staying balanced=allowing proper timing and directing power in the correct direction and timing. It may be that you have improper movements or movement directions in the x step too or alone. Timing is not the only thing at danger when you add steps. If possible a high speed camera would help you to diagnose your form stand still vs creeping speed x step vs control throw x step vs full power x step. If you manage to throw with clean form and proper timing at some speed that is what you need to train to make it permanent with some pushing at the next speed so that you will progress to manage that speed cleanly too eventually.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Odd observation

Postby CJ1998 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:19 am

Could the wind be an added variable? The increased airspeed might mean that my velocity from standstill is optimal while the x-step might be a touch too fast?

I should get out and film myself again. It's been a few years. I feel like when I do it, I'm not giving it the best possible representation, but that could just be in my head. I don't have access to a high speed camera unfortunately. I could do something with a 12MP point and shoot that would probably be OK.
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Re: Odd observation

Postby JR » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:02 am

Wind can mess up results so form changes should be evaluated in calm conditions first. Added speed will flip some discs while others remain unaffected in calm conditions. Cruising speed/HSS/speed stability or lack thereof in your power range varies from mold/plastic combo to another so only a portion of the discs should start to flip too much. Sure some discs are overgrown at times and thus they will need different compensation hyzer angle even in calm weather. And a disc that is ok with hyzer adjustments might become horrible in all but rear winds while another would remain unaffected in all but the craziest of headwinds.

Any video gives a chance of spotting form errors so even a camera in a phone is better than nothing but a real camera is a little better and a high speed camera is downright rude in how it can reveal form specifics.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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