## Massive Distance

Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

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### Re: Massive Distance

More speed means more distance, lift and more drag too so what is so bad about added drag? As long as it can be reclaimed in the glide and air time plus the wind pushing the disc after the apex? Keeping in mind that distance equals air time times average flight speed. Exchange losses in one to the other. Except when the wind blows when throwing higher catches more of that wind speed (ground speed tends to b ebelow above tree top height) for a longer time being higher up. And if the wind speed is high enough the disc will accelerate after the apex. At which it could be going really slow to gain max height if you have storm winds accelerating the disc to nice speed and glide. Going slow reaching the apex reduces the drag on the disc dramatically. So is it height that you are discussing really when you mention drag? You can toss equally high or thereabouts with annies and hyzer flips i imagine. I do not know that for certain and if they are not equal the difference at my power and ability to keep the nose down has shown little difference with both methods. I live close to a field with tall light masts that i use as a reference for height and thus far i see no real differences. Mind you my arm is getting stronger and healing better so i am able to get better nose down angles than ever before and have yet to try those super high lines this year. So the results might change.

Hyzer flip is still the longer throw distance record wise thus far. It seems that the anny records have crept up but do still lag behind. I would say that there is pretty much lift from throwing fast on top of the upward angle of the arm pull. What the exact ratio between those two is varies on the throw and i have no exact data on low golf shots vs max D tosses regarding how many feet of apex comes from each. Obviously the disc used has an impact and a 144 Blizzard disc is gonna lift more at the hands of a cannon armed player than a 175 so YMMV. And even i can get a nice bit of lift out of 175s on golf shots with nose and rear level shots with some discs. What i am saying is that i do not worry much about the drag pre apex.

To me it is more about fitting the hss, lss, cruise speed, nose angle, apex height, post apex anhyzer angle, apex speed, wind direction and the speed thereof together combined for the best effect to eek out every possible inch. Drag gets treated automatically when you fit the above together. During the throw the physcis is the last thing you should think of. You might be better off without thinking. In pre flight checks drag is still not a direct issue to me because it still gets handled by the target flight line and apex height. I am gonna toss balls out anyway for D with non varying speed so get the height, anny and nose angle right at the highest apex you can produce that still allows a full flight and enough post apex speed to allow the disc to flex out and glide and you are set. Naturally those variables change with the same disc depending on the wind. And every time drag is not what i am thinking of.

But i have limited power and lack the ability to keep the most OS warp speeders from fading out anyway so annies are not the easiest tickets for me other than decent D consistently. Hyzer flips may or may not be harder but when i hit them right they go farther out for me. Thus far the ultimate D achieved in a distance competition has also come with a hyzer flip. So i do not get what the issue is with drag. No matter the initial angle you are going to gain from added speed which automatically adds drag so toss faster Why worry about drag? I see no downsides to it IRL that you can reduce for gains in distance other than throwing super high to almost stall the disc out in storm winds.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
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### Re: Massive Distance

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I agree that speed is everything, and more speed is more drag/lift, but you still want to minimize drag. Drag is highly dependent on nose angle to it's trajectory, not necessarily anny vs hyzer flip. It is interesting that Marc Jarvis switched from hyzer flip to anny for distance competition and he said he feels anny can go further. Basing a conclusion on Wiggins record is a farce, he is a freak of nature.
seabas22
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### Re: Massive Distance

Front lower than rear hyzer flip could indeed have more frontal area relative to the direction the disc is going because it needs to fly front down from the get go. And annies do go more thin part first relative to the flight direction pre apex. The trouble with os discs that need annies is that the are more likely to fade out and crash short hence the need to start anny in the first place. World records have been set my a few guys hyzer flipped.That are past 200 m with older discs that are likely not as long as current discs. Voigt Jarvis Sandström and Wiggins so it is not David junior alone.

The trouble for comparing hyzer flip vs anny for a top thrower is that they might be better with one or the other and like Blake wrote anything over 160 m is part luck. You cannot control the wind other than indoors and in simulations. Another problem is the nose angle. Different discs need different nose angles so some hyzer flippers might be close to annied discs pre apex. To reasearch this even by throwing is hard because i have not unlocked enough speed and spin to handle every disc and my results differ from better and worse throwers. As the things have been for close to twenty years hyzer flips have dominated.

Do you know if Jarvis has tied his TB hyzer flip record with an anny? Or how close other top throwers are to their hyzer flip distance with annies and is anyone longer annied than hyzer flipped at the moment? And does the disc selection dictate the line rather than the distance potential? Does Bratten use Preds still for D?
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia

Posts: 11711
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level