Confusion, excitement the side arm

Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Confusion, excitement the side arm

Postby rodman » Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:47 pm

Well today i played and played poorly. Lots of fun, some good putts and maybe 6 or 7 pars but had lots of holes where i just lost control. So after the kids went down for the night I went out to a local baseball field to throw. I was getting decent throws back handed however i tried a few side armed. Being an old baseball player it came pretty naturally. I threw maybe 15 discs and was very very wild. But i had a string of about 8 that i put DEEP. I paced them off and they were in the exact direction I aimed and I threw 3 of them over 350 feet. That's 20-30 feet further than I've thrown back handed. I feel with a bit of practice i can easily toss one 300 with no effort and totally controlled. One negative was the height I was getting on those S curver. The sidewinder and Valkryie were probably 50-60 feet at their apex. I also tossed my Star TL low and on a line for 300 ft. That's about 30 feet further than my average back hander.


SO... you can understand my excitement and confusion. I've been working pretty hard on the back hand. I think for now I'm going to put this experience in my hip pocket and dabble with the side arm when the opportunity presents itself on the course and also practice it more.

Do any of you switch during the round? Can you toss the disc further side arm? I was a shortstop and practically threw sidearm 50% of the time in high school and college rec baseball.. but that's years ago. The form seemed to translate into some nice results for me.

Who knows but it was nice to chuck it that far. The bad throws where i came about 3/4 and not totally sidearm was going hard left then rolling a mile. I'd have to work on getting it leveled off.
rodman
Noob
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Cary, NC

Postby Woodchuck » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:41 pm

i'm in the same boat i'm fairly new to the sport but can throw sidearm further than backhand. MY backhand average is 260-280. MY sidearm can go aobut 300 average, I switch up all the time. Being a lefty it helps a lot. I like to use an overstable disc to sidearm with because it allows me to have a drive go to the left easily for me. I use an X-Predator currently. Using an understable disc sidearm is just going to go the same way your stable to over stable backhands go. IN that case i just use a backhand shot.
Woodchuck
Noob
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:18 pm
Location: Batimore, MD

Postby Blake_T » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:17 pm

throwing sidearm or overhand (thumbers/tomahawks) will often lead to short run success they are easier to learn/throw than a backhand drive.

however, in the long run, a backhand will surpass those shots in terms of distance, control, versatility, and fatigue (assuming you reach the ~350' plateau).
Blake_T
Super Sekret Technique Jedi
 
Posts: 5824
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:44 am
Location: Minneapolis

Postby AciDBatH666 » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:58 pm

Im mainly a sidearm driver. I dont ever release at a 90 degree angle from the ground. Its gotten to the point where i get so much torque on the discs, that they all turn understable for some of their flight. Id say I throw most of my long distance drivers somewhere between 30 and 40 degrees down from a hyzer angle.

I carry several weights for a couple of discs, both work slightly different from the same release angle. My 168 Orc actually turns understable, and flexes out. It'll go fairly straight down a long fairway, but it'll make the path with a slight S-curve. The 173 Orc I have pretty much holds a straight line the entire path, and has a nice soft fade at the end of its flight.

Once you learn what angle to start ripping these drives from, you'll gain a lot of control. A lot of my upshots and approaches are thrown sidearm, because I've been doing it so long that I can guage approach shots 10 times more accurate. But thats just me.
The way I kind of started learning my own sidearm style, was throwing more and more overstable discs for a little while to correct my release angle problems... I didnt get as much distance as I would of liked, but I learned to control em. From there I started going more and more stable, and even to understable discs. Once you get some technique down with sidearm drives, you'll probably start to turn stable discs understable. Sometimes i get a nasty kink in my game for 9-12 holes where I turn my wrist at the last second of my throw, and I end up turning over a disc right away, and it'll just be a wormburner. But once you learn to angle that drive down X amount of degrees, you'll start to really control em off the tee

My backhand isnt the greatest, but it has come a long way. I used to have trouble hitting 300, but now ive gotten enough technique and form to hit 350 max. To me, thats sufficient. I dont feel the need to strive to hit 400 ft at all anymore. Mainly because my sidearms can hit 370 with the right drive.... ANd ive birdied a couple of 390 and 410 foot holes from sidearm skip shots.
My game is at the point now where I try not to rely on my sidearm so much, because I do realize that it is a crutch, and with the right technique I can outthrow it with my backhand.... But I'll still throw it when i need something more accurate.
AciDBatH666
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1538
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 2:37 pm
Location: Lafayette, LA
Favorite Disc: Flat Top Roc

Postby Thatdirtykid » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:11 pm

Blake_T wrote:throwing sidearm or overhand (thumbers/tomahawks) will often lead to short run success they are easier to learn/throw than a backhand drive.

however, in the long run, a backhand will surpass those shots in terms of distance, control, versatility, and fatigue (assuming you reach the ~350' plateau).


I definately drove a bit longer sidearm before I developed any sense of form backhand. I dont see ever driving further than 350 forehand, but backhand can now consistantly throw over 425' backhand.

I know an older guy who throws sidearm exclusively, and can get it out 350, as accurate as anyone, but even with flawless form couldnt get them much longer.

leep working the sidearm, and the backhand, but If youre looking for distance dont look for it in the sidearm.
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
Thatdirtykid
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3677
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Longmont Co
Favorite Disc: z pred

Distance

Postby rodman » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:40 am

Well, I'm not really looking for distance. Mainly just improvement and success. I was getting the disc to fly nicely. I went back this morning and I was tossing my star TL 167 g nicely for about 280-300 ft without any stress. I will work on consistency and see if that toss can fit into my game. Thanks for advice...
rodman
Noob
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Cary, NC

Postby Blake_T » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:51 am

i should have mentioned.

it is great to have a good sidearm. it is a very useful shot that most players could use a better version of. however, i don't recommend players neglecting a backhand in the long run, nor learning a good backhand anhyzer as well.
Blake_T
Super Sekret Technique Jedi
 
Posts: 5824
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:44 am
Location: Minneapolis

Backhand v side

Postby rodman » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:02 am

The wierd thing about the sidearm is that it seems so natural for me and so intuitive. Even with NO practice and experience i can see the lines and feel different shots with it. I can impart more/less spin and somewhat dictate the height. I can definetly see the benefits of having both in the bag.

I'm not really wanting/expecting/needing to throw the disc 400 ft. IF i could get to the point that I can work the disc left or right and and get 300 ft - 350 if needed then i'd be happy. The 2 courses that I play on dont demand much more than this on any hole. Acutally i'd bet there is only 2 or 3 holes that i could actually rip it and use more than 350' that the risk/reward is worth really going for it. I'll probably play 95% of my rounds the next year on these 2 courses so you can see that my development is going to be dictated by the courses i play and they reward accuracy.

I threw my (favorite) Tee Bird Star TL side arm and was getting 280-300 which is about 10% more than i get back hand. These throws are both control throws which means I'm not really reaching back for that extra distance. I'd say of all shots... this disc and this particular throw (both back hand with the TL and now the side arm with the TL) is my most predictable and efficient.

I'm going to spend more time on this side arm thinking that it may have a place in my game.
rodman
Noob
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Cary, NC

Postby Kingbee » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:43 am

I am able to throw my side arms about as far as my back hand shots. I switch back and forth depending on the hole. If Its a dogleg to the right Ill throw side arm, and back hand for the opposite. But if its a strait shot and Im going for distance Ill go back hand. I can throw both ways just as acuratly in the 300' range. Its nice being able to do either way depending what fits my shot the best.

I do notice feeling some pain after a lot of side arm shots. This is another reason I try to use back hand when I can.
Kingbee
Noob
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:57 pm
Location: Akron Ohio

Postby jiwaburst » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:43 am

I am able to throw my side arms about as far as my back hand shots. I switch back and forth depending on the hole. If Its a dogleg to the right Ill throw side arm, and back hand for the opposite. But if its a strait shot and Im going for distance Ill go back hand. I can throw both ways just as acuratly in the 300' range. Its nice being able to do either way depending what fits my shot the best.

I do notice feeling some pain after a lot of side arm shots. This is another reason I try to use back hand when I can.


same same.

There are a few shots which are much easier sidearm, and I try to save my arm for these shots by throwing backhand most of the time.

Some paths through woods are so much easier for me with a sidearm, especially when I need to hit a hole high in the woods. There is another hole we play which has a pond in front and to the left of the hole. Sidearm saves my discs from getting wet.
jiwaburst
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:16 am
Location: central valley, CA

Postby rodman » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:17 am

All our water is either a total carry over a pond or off to the right so backhand is the play. However there are several tee shots that have large trees on either side of the fairway about 30 feet from the tee box maybe about 10 feet apart. This tends to be a tight squeeze for my back hand shots and I'm thinking I may be able to shoot a side armer thru there with relative ease. I'll let you know.
rodman
Noob
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:23 pm
Location: Cary, NC

Postby rehder » Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:39 am

I wasnt sure whether to start a new thread or revive the old one, but in the end I figured it would be better to have relevant information/experience posted in one thread.

Ive been playing for a little over 2 months now. I use my backhand almost exclusively on the course, but plan changing that. I can throw considerably further forehand. 350-375. I try to mimmick Mark Ellis's style from the Discraft video clninc, with a mostly straight arm so as not to try and put too much strain on the elbow. I throw a X avenger anny and it holds this flightpath for quite some time before fadig back at the end. The only problem with this shot is that it is rather high. I agree with rodman that the apex is probably around that height.
I still put most of my practice into my backhand, its just that I get nowhere the length on my backhand (255-280) that I do forehand. And as long as this is the case I foresee that I could use 3-6 long forehand drives a round to my advantage as long as the wind is light or its a tailwind, since I havent found out how to throw low sidearm.
rehder
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:58 pm
Location: Discn in northern Europe

Postby TexasOutlaw » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:13 am

I've never really been able to throw side arm even though I've tried to learn this shot for right turns. I have a feeling I have some rotater cuff issues in my shoulder that prevent me from throwing sidearm.

I'm still hoping to find someone on the course one day that can give me some one on one coaching.
TexasOutlaw
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: south Texas

Postby deaddisc » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:05 pm

The only problem with this shot is that it is rather high. I agree with rodman that the apex is probably around that height.
...
since I havent found out how to throw low sidearm


Try either a heavier disc, a more overstable disc (flick, firebird, monster), or drop your wrist angle down. I doubt that it is the third though if you can x-out an avenger already (for the distance you said) on your forehand.
deaddisc
Fairway Surgeon
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:11 pm
Location: Worcester

Postby P_eye » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:47 pm

i'd keep on trying the sidearm. i too was a pitcher/3rd baseman back in the day and the sidearm just seemed natural, so that's how i started in jan 2006. then after a couple months my left side started to hurt bad... i guess i just wasn't used to it, so started to backhand. i thought i was on to something and was convinced that rhbh was the only way to go. in july i found a valkyrie (star 175) and realy liked it. after a couple weeks, i tried flicking (rhsa) it and was amazed at my distance and accuracy, so i was back on the rhsa kick again. a few weeks later, i found a beast (ce 168) and it blew my mind! it was an absolute bullet!!!

so what i'm trying to say after playing 200+ rounds on 20 different courses this is what works for ME:

1. i'm stuck on flick'n it...(STRAIGHT-FAST-LONG)
2. use a stable/understable disc. these are what i've found to be bullets.
a - ce beast 168 - my dx tends to roll... although got a downhill 425ft+ ace using lots of anhyzer (huge S curve) with an old dx.
b - valkyrie 175 star (found)
c - orc 168 ce or dx (not pro)
d - eagle - dx or ce... although my ce tends to be too understable, but has its place.
3. use a lighter disc - 165-170
4. use no more than 80% power - more will make it turn over.
5. throw low - if the terrain is flat i like to keep it no more that 2 meters off the ground.
a - if you're throwing too high, look at and slightly throw towards the ground, not the target. it works for me and other people i've helped.

stick with it and play by yourself sometimes so you can unload your bag on every hole. that's how i figured out what does what for me. when i play with veterans and mention that i've been playing since jan, they look at me like i'm lying. i've only seen 1 ace and it was mine....
P_eye
Noob
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Lawrence, KS


Return to Technique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest