What's really so bad about OAT's?

Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

What's really so bad about OAT's?

Postby Takeichi » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:03 pm

Is it innaccurate compared to having no torque? or is it just like slicing in ball golf? just wondering
disc in topic above goes realy really far.
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/2/3/a/23aa5baf8e4d1ea06b5877d070d74a2a.gif
PDGA# 34235
Takeichi
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 11:34 am
Location: La Mirada, CA

Postby adidadg » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:05 pm

If you can turn it on and off it can be useful, but otherwise you'll have a really tough time throwing straight
adidadg
 

Postby Takeichi » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:09 pm

on a side note the newer discs are just getting more and more stable and i'm beginning to guess that Oats will be a big part of the game in the years to come.
disc in topic above goes realy really far.
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/2/3/a/23aa5baf8e4d1ea06b5877d070d74a2a.gif
PDGA# 34235
Takeichi
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 11:34 am
Location: La Mirada, CA

Postby garublador » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:12 pm

adidadg wrote:If you can turn it on and off it can be useful, but otherwise you'll have a really tough time throwing straight
Being able to control off-axis torque is crutial when it comes to shaping differnent shots. Not being able to control it means your disc selection will be limited, you won't have control of where your discs fly and you'll be missing out on power.
garublador
Disc Whore
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:37 am
Location: Urbandale, IA

Postby garublador » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:13 pm

Takeichi wrote:on a side note the newer discs are just getting more and more stable and i'm beginning to guess that Oats will be a big part of the game in the years to come.
That's also a reason people throw Destroyers on 250' holes and can't throw a Roc >50' without turning it into a cut-roller.
garublador
Disc Whore
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:37 am
Location: Urbandale, IA

Postby SkaBob » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:18 pm

Discs aren't just getting more stable. Look at some of discraft's recent releases. 150 Surge, Avenger SS, Surge SS, Force...all of them are pretty flippy when you get down to it. Discs are getting FASTER to some extent, but not necessarily more stable.
SkaBob
Disc Whore
 
Posts: 3493
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:51 am
Location: Detroit
Favorite Disc: Comet

Postby tumpsi » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:21 pm

I'm not sure if I understand the term OAT correctly. Could someone explain it,
really slowly, with pics 'n vids 'n shit. So, what is off axis torque, and what it
causes to a disc golf discs flight path?
Max Boss Teebird Roc Wizard
tumpsi
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1129
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:16 am
Location: Finland

Postby garublador » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:25 pm

Torque is a force about an axis. The axis we're talking about is the one perpendicular to the center of the disc and pointing through the center of the disc. Any torque imparted about a different axis is considered to be "off-axis."

Examples of ways to impart off-axis torque are rolling your wrist over or finishing on a lower plane than you threw on, both of which cause discs to act more understable, or rolling your wrist under or finishing on a higher plane than you threw on, both of which cause the disc to act more overstable.
garublador
Disc Whore
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:37 am
Location: Urbandale, IA

Re: What's really so bad about OAT's?

Postby Eric O » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:26 pm

Takeichi wrote:Is it innaccurate compared to having no torque? or is it just like slicing in ball golf? just wondering

Having no torque would be impossible when you are trying to propel a disc. Off axis just means you aren't focusing your energy/momentum along the plane you are throwing on. The result is you don't get all the energy you are producing into your throw, and also the disc will want to burn out. I don't know much about ball golf but that sounds like a slice to me. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Takeichi wrote:on a side note the newer discs are just getting more and more stable and i'm beginning to guess that Oats will be a big part of the game in the years to come.
I don't think so, except in the instance where OAT will become a factor that more people new to the sport will eventually have to overcome while learning to throw discs properly. I mean how long can you go on throwing a Destroyer 250ft after you keep seeing people outdrive you with a putter? Those that stick to the sport very long are going to want to learn to get the most out of slower more controllable molds.
Eric O
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1848
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:22 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Postby Eric O » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:29 pm

By the way, I didn't mean to reproduce garu's post. He beat me to the punch while I was typing it out.
Eric O
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1848
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:22 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Postby tumpsi » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:43 pm

..and what do you mean when you say "rolling the wrist under/over"? :-)
edit: oh how much i hate that :) emoticon
Max Boss Teebird Roc Wizard
tumpsi
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1129
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:16 am
Location: Finland

Postby Eric O » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:46 pm

wrist roll over: if you throw RHBH you would be cocking your wrist clockwise too far

roll under: the opposite

These are not things you want to have happen unless you are doing it on purpose to manipulate flight in a certain way.
Eric O
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1848
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:22 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Postby tumpsi » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:50 pm

thx
Max Boss Teebird Roc Wizard
tumpsi
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1129
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:16 am
Location: Finland

Postby black udder » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:57 pm

I don't know that the destroyer is any more stable than any other recent batch of new drivers. Faster, yes. But dunno about more stable. I picked up a 168g dx destroyer at a tournament and it's certainly useable for my power (around 300'). With a slight wind or a good tug, it'll even turn over a bit.

As for OAT and the stability of discs. It's typical for new throwers to roll their wrist over or get off plane because they're unfamiliar with proper form. They typically start with 1-2 discs and they get beat up pretty quickly. Thus, they believe that those discs are now too understable for them. They then go and look for a disc that's more stable, thinking that the previous one is too understable for their power. They could just go buy a new version of the same disc. Now, they find with the new, more stable disc, that the discs don't go as far, so they throw harder, causing more lack of control and more OAT and wrist roll.

Throwing on plane is just like the letter T. Your body is the I and your arm the cross. Throwing right handed, you would be level on the left side and finish on the right hand side. The opposite for lefties. If you're throwing hyzer, you would just tile the cross down on the left side and up the same amount on the right side.
black udder
Naturally Athletic
User avatar
 
Posts: 4857
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Richmond, VA
Favorite Disc: The one in my hand

Postby Eric O » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:28 pm

black udder wrote:I don't know that the destroyer is any more stable than any other recent batch of new drivers. Faster, yes. But dunno about more stable.
That's likely the case, but here is the rub:

Faster pretty much means it's intended to fly at a higher cruising speed. To achieve higher cruising speeds typically means being able to generate larger amounts of snap. The further one is from being able to produce enough snap to make a disc hit the speed it was designed to fly at, the more overstable the disc will behave in flight.

So a Destroyer is going to pick up progressively more overstable characteristics as you go lower down the pyramid of disc throwing technique.
Eric O
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1848
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:22 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Next

Return to Technique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests

cron