1 O'Clock Grip?

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1 O'Clock Grip?

Postby Bradley Walker » Mon May 01, 2006 12:16 pm

I have also started following the Blake program.

I have a stack of Cylcones that I throw in the field by my house.

I have been throwing with a power grip. The placement of my hand would be in the "3 o'clock postion" if the disc is held with the plate flat in front ofg you (RHBH). I have always felt my rips came and went on a day to day basis.

After watching some pro pics, I began to notice a grip that is further "on the other side of the disc". I was always confused how the thumb could be toward the center of the disc. If you hand is in the 3'oclock position this is nearly impossible.

Long story short, I began experimenting with a grip that is placed more of the top of the dome, and not as much to the side (at 1 o'clock). That is the pad of the hand is much more in contact with the disc, and the power grip is applied a little more "over the top and under" the disc (more on the opposite side of the disc as you look at it held in front of you (1 o'clock).

Initial results....

Much more powerful consistent rips. More spin. More distance. The disc is much easier to hold on to, period. The plate is much more in contact wit hthe palm (pad) of the hand, so awareness of the plate is better (much easier to control the nose angle). More connection of the stronger parts of the upper arm to the shoulder becauseof the elbow being pointed more naturally dowrange at the snap with the palm more naturally facing down.

To me is feels like a "strong" grip is ball golf as opposed to a weak grip, and that the wrist angle is slightly rolled over onto the top of the disc, as aopposed to the "3 o'clock" grip which off to the side of the disc.
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Postby Woodchuck » Mon May 01, 2006 7:56 pm

I tried this today and you are right i did get more distance this way. I only tried it a few times so i need to go out again and see if i get similar results/
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1 o clock

Postby rodman » Mon May 01, 2006 9:00 pm

I also tried this today on about 20 throws and i did get a bit more distance.... or was it simply a bit better wrist action and trajectory. I think the only thing that is different with the 1 oclock grip vs 3 is wrist angle and also you mentioned putting more meat of your thumb on top. This particular wrist angle and launch seemed very natural to me.

I'm curious to see if blake has any thoughts on this.
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Postby Blake_T » Mon May 01, 2006 9:54 pm

sounds like you were cuffing/curling your wrist more?

there's basically two ways to harness tendon elasticity during your throw, one of them is more efficient/powerful.

one way is to curl (or let momentum curl the wrist) and extend to neutral when the disc rips out.

the other way is to keep the wrist neutral (possibly with very slight curl due to momentum during the pull) and finishing with the wrist open. this method is much more accurate and powerful, but more difficult to time.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Tue May 02, 2006 7:55 am

More grip=more power
more grip=more accuracy

more palm contact=more plate control

increased wrist supination (rolling the right forearm counterclockwise) = greater ability to comfortably arch the wrist down = more ability to throw nose done = more distance

I have been very apprehensive to say that I have something unique here, as I live by the inventor's motto that "everything has been done". I will however, say this grip is wholly different than the pics posted in Blake's article on the grip. This pics demonstate what I would call the 3 o'clock grip.

Try this... for RHBH.

1. Hold the disc flat out in front of you.
2. Reach over the top of the disc to 1' oclock.
3. Place you hand flat on top of the disc pointing directly away from you. You will notice the forearm is comfortably rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise from the "standard" 3 o'clock grip position. You elbow is pointed downrange.
4. Wrap all four fingers around the rim lay the thumb to the side.
5. Now, rotate the hand up (arch the wrist down) until the pad of the thumb contacts the top of the disc at a point just inside of the rim
5. Arch the wrist down until the disc is below and parallel to the forearm.

You will notice at this point, if done correctly, you could tighten the finger grip and taco the disc against the thumb pad. Now that is some grip.

With this grip, this disc is not in line with the forearm, but parallel to it and about 4" below the line of the forearm. The wrist archs down much easier in this supinated position (rotated until the palm is facing the ground), so achieving nose down angle is easy. In fact, I have been having trouble getting height on my practice Cyclones because I have been keeping the nose down so well.

I think the angle formed by this strong position or "open wrist release" is actually ergonomically more correct. When the plate is level to the ground the elbow is cocking on the plane of the throw, instead of being more perpindicular to this plane. This makes the load into the hit more truly in line with the muscles all the way into the upper and lower back.
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Postby presidio hills » Tue May 02, 2006 9:29 am

Blake_T wrote:the other way is to keep the wrist neutral (possibly with very slight curl due to momentum during the pull) and finishing with the wrist open. this method is much more accurate and powerful, but more difficult to time.


is bob graham really good at this? there's something funky about his style...
if not him anyone else you have a clip of that does this? or do all the pros do this?
i feel like the cat who posted this thread must grip it similar to steve brinster.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Tue May 02, 2006 1:19 pm

presidio hills wrote:
Blake_T wrote:i feel like the cat who posted this thread must grip it similar to steve brinster.


That looks like it, or very close to it.
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Postby MrTasses » Tue May 02, 2006 1:47 pm

do you have a picture of this grip? I am having a little trouble figuring out how you are griping it from the description.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Tue May 02, 2006 1:51 pm

MrTasses wrote:do you have a picture of this grip? I am having a little trouble figuring out how you are griping it from the description.


I will post pics tonight after I get back from class.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Tue May 02, 2006 2:17 pm

I was hoping for a picture as well.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Tue May 02, 2006 7:29 pm

Here are the pics:

This is a standard 3 o'clock grip from the top.

Image

This is a standard 3 o'clock grip from the side. The wrist is arch down and the palm is vertical orientation.

Image

This is the building of the 3 o'clock grip.

Image

Here the thumb is not yet rotated to the pad.
Image

Here the thumb pad is in contact with the rim, and the fingers are working against the thumb. I can taco the disc from here.
Image


Image

You can see the disc is parallel to arm, and below it. The disc is not in line with the arm.
Image

Here the disc is naturally arched down to create the nose down condition.
Image

I have tried the thumb further way from the fingers. I like the thumb nearly touching the index finger the best. Not like this.

Image
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Postby Bradley Walker » Tue May 02, 2006 7:47 pm

I taught this grip to my wife today. She had no snap before and many, many, early releases. Now you can hear a pop when the disc rips.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Postby Woodchuck » Tue May 02, 2006 8:31 pm

Hi that is how i was doing it this weekend as well. Worked very well for me as well, but like i said i need to try it out some more, hopefully tomorrow afternoon.
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Postby Blake_T » Wed May 03, 2006 1:38 am

it's good to have "meat" of the base of the thumb on the disc, but not if it inhibits the linear hinging of the wrist.
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Postby MrTasses » Wed May 03, 2006 5:00 am

Thanks for the well done pics! I threw the disc like that a little when I was first starting since it is pretty similar to how a discus is gripped. It always felt like I got little wrist action when I held it that way. But I do have a better idea or what I'm doing now so I'll give it a try next time I am out.

BTW, hope your wife's ring is nice and snug. :D
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