Does power just "come"?

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Does power just "come"?

Postby Jestyr » Wed May 03, 2006 12:49 pm

My friends that have been playing (much) longer than me are all out-driving me by quite a ways. I don't think any of them are using the X-step, or have done much (if any) research or reading on better technique.

So my question is whether power will just come with time?

Obviously there are a lot of factors... but I am likely the best overall athlete among them and they have said I picked up the game rather quickly. But I am also a small guy (5'7" 145 lbs), even though I am in good shape.

I suppose I ask this because I have an internal goal that I want to beat them within the next 3-6 months (I am highly competitive), but do not see that happening as long if my approach shots are 50-100' longer.
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Postby roadkill » Wed May 03, 2006 1:22 pm

I'll repeat advice that's been said over and over in some form or another:

Invest some time in off course practice. Go to a wide open field without obstacles, distractions and as few pedestrians and/or dogs as possible. Take a stack of drivers and throw end to end back and forth. Not rapidfire mind you but watch the entire flight of each shot even if you yank it off your intended flight line. I've often learned the most from shots that went far off their intended line. Experiment with different stride lengths, swing thoughts, grips and tempos. To me this is where real discovery and learning takes place. You learn best when you experience it for yourself.

You also may want to invest a few bucks in some of the videos currently available like the usdgc and marshall st videos. Study the top pros, analyze their form and then see if you can take something from their technique to the practice field. Power is more about technique,coordination and timing than about physical stature or brute strength.

A couple concepts I could leave with you are these. Try to achieve a whiplike sensation. It's difficult to teach but if and when you get it, it will be like a huge light bulb going off and put a huge smile on your face. Secondly try to focus on accelerating through your release. Many golfers tend to accelerate too early in their swing and are actually decelerated at the release point which wastes arm speed.

Good Luck!
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Postby garublador » Wed May 03, 2006 1:58 pm

I also find that practicing throwing putters far has helped my technique quite a bit. While they are forgiving when it comes to nose angles, they aren't very forgiving when it comes to off-axis torque.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Wed May 03, 2006 2:09 pm

Power will come as long as you have the proper technique down. If you are doing something fundamentally wrong, you could have some problems.

I know one of the things that adds to power is snap, and it did just come to me. I threw one day and remember thinking: why haven't I been doing this all along?

Also, the more you can practice, throw, and play, the better. My course is barren at times, and I'll pick a hole and work on it, trying different shots until I can place the disc anywhere I want.

Hell, it took me 5 years to realize that I needed height to get monster D. Prior, I was throwing about 8 feet of the ground.
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Postby Jestyr » Wed May 03, 2006 3:43 pm

I don't get much snap from my backhand, but I do from my sidearm -- is that normal? I think i am arming my backhand too much...

Other than that, I don't think there are any fundamental flaws in my throw, but I suppose it may be helpful for me to video my swing and post it to get critiques and criticism.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Wed May 03, 2006 10:27 pm

forhand is easier for most beginners to learn, for instance my forhand hasnt gotten much longer since the first month of disc (about 350) while my backhand started at 200' and is now consistantly over 400'.
More people throw a sidearm naturally while even though the backhand has much more potential it takes a bit of work.
Read up on your articles and tips---> http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/articles.shtml
http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/tips.shtml

after all these got alot of us where we are today.
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
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Postby Blake_T » Wed May 03, 2006 10:33 pm

disc technique may or may not develop on its own. for most players, they naturally develop to/through a series of plateaus, the last of which pretty much gives the upper cap that 98% of disc golfers will hit.

the plateaus are
1) ~175'
2) ~225'
3) ~275'
4) ~325'
5) ~350-380'
if you break 5 (usually ~425' of golf d), you have 500' in you if you hit the right line.

each one of these plateaus generally requires an improvement in technique to bring you to the next level. some people are lucky and start higher up on the ladder (i started at 2 and have had friends start at 3 their first time out).

the 5th plateau is really the hangup. most players will end up here, and most will accept that they will likely never break that plateau and begin to work on consistency rather than struggling with changes that may never work out.

as for your questions, it is normal that sidearm is easier to learn than backhand, but you plateau even more quickly, and even fewer players ever break plateau 5 with a sidearm than backhand.

keep in mind timing is a fundamental, as well as fluidity. if you are strong arming the disc you are likely pulling early and without a lot of whip.
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Postby Weebl » Thu May 04, 2006 8:14 am

I can hit a 400'-420' Golf line now, consistantly. To achieve the 500' shot, do the distance lines? If that's the case I need to work on the hyzer flip distance route and pushing the disc to the left to force that nose down with 40' of height.
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Postby Blake_T » Thu May 04, 2006 9:32 am

correct, but the focus on the hyzer flip should be to pull the disc into the distance turn with a ton of nose down, which is ~30 degrees from left to right.
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Postby Jestyr » Thu May 04, 2006 10:15 am

When you list your plateaus, do you mean average, or max?

For example, I am averaging 225'-250' pretty consistently, with occassional forages in the 325' range (few and far between). I assume you would consider me a 225' driver at this point (plateau 2).

When I do have my magical 325' throws, I notice that they seem to have that S curve, in that they kind of float to the right for a while before they tail to the left. Since I keep reading about the S curve, I assume this is okay and correct.

Also, I notice that when I keep the disc low, I am a LOT more consistent with it. I would guess I am around 10' off the ground (good estimate, I play slow pitch softball). But I keep reading how you need height for good D. That said, when I throw it higher, I am less consistent and more often, it stalls and doesn't do anything special distance-wise. I assume this is because I am getting the nose up, but how can you get height unless you put the nose up?
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Postby Blake_T » Thu May 04, 2006 2:10 pm

from what you are describing, and what i have seen, it sounds like you are probably throwing towards the bottom of the disc and using off axis torque to flatten it. the words "float" when you describe your s-curve lead me to believe this.

when your disc s's, does it fall out of the air to the left? or is it still penetrating forwards when it flexes?

as for height, it depends a lot on the disc and your power. to put a roc 325' you need at least 20' of height at the apex.

with newer, wider drivers, such as a wraith, a 20' high throw is going like 440'.

there are other threads that have talked about throwing high and nose down. basically you throw with an upwards trajectory, but with the disc plane still nose down. e.g. throwing flat and trying to skim the ceiling with the top of the disc flat.

as for plateaus, it means "on a good pull," but it also implies you can tell immediately if it was a good or bad pull. if you can do it say, 1 out of 5 (and often more), that is what i would call plateau d. even guys that throw 450' will often only throw say 435', but i still say they have 450 power.
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Postby Weebl » Sat May 06, 2006 11:31 pm

Blake_T wrote:correct, but the focus on the hyzer flip should be to pull the disc into the distance turn with a ton of nose down, which is ~30 degrees from left to right.
I've never really been able to comprehend this concept... I can consciously pull it right to achieve an air bounce knife hyzer, but pushing it to the left i can't conceptualize very easily. When I pull it to the right, (when throwing with hyzer) it is effectively, nose up. From what I can tell, this is from a reachback that is <180 degrees away from my target, resulting in a pull in equal proportions to the right on the follow through. To achieve this massive ammount of nose down on hyzer flips, should i effectively have my reachback go >180 degrees from my target (while maintaining the footwork/momentum towards my target?)
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Postby Pagan » Wed May 24, 2006 9:23 pm

garublador wrote:I also find that practicing throwing putters far has helped my technique quite a bit. While they are forgiving when it comes to nose angles, they aren't very forgiving when it comes to off-axis torque.
5'

A big ole Freakin-A there!

My max accurate drive distance before putter practice: 175'
My current max accurate drive distance: 300-330'

Most of the players I play with during recreational rounds are simply amazed how far (and accurately) I can throw a putter (Challenger/Banger GT). I can throw my putter about 225' accurately right now and hoping to get that out to 300' by next spring.

Play with your putters!
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Postby Blake_T » Wed May 24, 2006 9:34 pm

musta missed weebl's post.

it is a PUSH to the left, but the follow through should focus on pulling the disc into the flip.
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