Specific Roller Question

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Specific Roller Question

Postby bigs348 » Fri May 05, 2006 9:04 am

I've improved my game a lot recently and one of my only gaps has been rollers (although I've been working on them a ton lately because of some of the courses I've had to play). I can throw them fairly consistently now, but am still having trouble with distance rollers. I've tried to figure it out myself by field practice, but I'm coming up short.

To start, I have consistent D ("Def. The range at which you change your throw for a shot that is 20' shorter."-Blake ) of about 360-370' in the air. The farthest I've gotten a roller (trying CE Leopards, Star TLs, and a Star Sidewinder) has maybe been 330-340'. My main problem is figuring out how much ground to cover in the air before the roller starts and, with that, how high to throw it to cover that ground. This is specifically for distance rollers, I've got control rollers down pretty good. Blake or anyone roller proficient?
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Postby discmonkey42 » Fri May 05, 2006 9:14 am

Sorry, bigs, off topic reply. That Dylan quote is awesome. Never seen it before, but in my opinion is the long sought after meaning of life. :D :D
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Postby DiscCrusher » Fri May 05, 2006 10:16 am

I'm not that great at rollers as I don't use them very often, but most people seem to think you should cover as much ground in the air as you can while still landing on edge. But that is very hard to do and I always set my distance rollers down about 25-50' out and can get some good distance. I can throw my rollers out to about 400' while in the air I can only get out to around 350'.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Fri May 05, 2006 11:53 am

I was looking through the instructional articles http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources ... lers.shtml

But I couldnt find a stated distance, so I'll tell you what I do. I throw a bunch of rollers with most of them falling into the conrol category (so that I don't end up way off from the basket).

For distance, I normally hang it in the air for about 200 feet before it lands and rolls if I'm going for pure distance; I suspect better players leave it in the air closer to 300, but I'm not sure.

Most of my rollers land much quicker for control purposes probably closer to 100 ft. If I can get out and throw, I'll pay more attention to where they land. The more I think about it, the more I think 200 may be to long (you or rather I will end up with a shot that is way right).

In general, the longer you can leave it in the air, the more distance you can get from it at the sacrifice of control.
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Postby bigs348 » Fri May 05, 2006 1:18 pm

discmonkey: i have a book of all dylan quotes from interviews, home video, etc. nothing from songs. it's got some good stuff in it and that quote is one of my favorites.

texas: i read through blake's articles this morning and I couldn't find any specific distance or formula either. i read at one point a while ago, but i don't remember where, that it should be two-thirds of your normal throw. but thats a ton, it seems like. if i normally throw 360, i should throw 240 in the air and then roll. maybe I need to use a less overstable disc and get more height -- if I try and get it out that far, i won't hit nearly the right edge it needs to roll. i've got the accurate rollers down, i just want the distance roller specifically for wide open, don't care about accuracy, 1000 foot holes. i just need to hit the field some more i guess, but i would like to have some idea of the best way to approach practicing...
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Postby Blake_T » Fri May 05, 2006 2:46 pm

it depends on what type of roller you are throwing.

there are two types of rollers that will go beyond your air shots:
1) sky roller
2) distance turnover roller

sky rollers are basically glorified controlled rollers and need to maintain more speed/spin than distance rollers, so they generally have to carry less distance in the air. landing with a lower trajectory will carry more momentum from the flight, but it depends a lot on the shot you are throwing. as a general rule, if i land a disc that is a sky roller between 200-275', my roller will go 360-400'.

distance turnover rollers will want to land when most of the speed/spin has burned out, generally after the disc has covered at least 70-80% of flight you could achieve in the air. basically, you want to throw them as far as you can in the air while still being able to land them on edge. these rollers will use mostly momentum to continue rolling, but since they are moving slower they will not turn topside. the "tickle roll" that happens at the end is variable, but you can often get upwards of 150' or more of roll while the disc is rolling quite slow. generally i try to land my distance turnover rollers beyond 300', often closer to 330+ (using ~360' as my average air shot). discs that are able to do this are usually very flippy and thrown as a hyzer flip to get this path.

while i have seen people who could throw rollers that land within 50' of the tee over 500' with overstable discs, this is generally not a good way to roll for D for two reasons:
1) the disc slows down much faster on the ground than it does in the air
2) terrain is more likely to mess up the way your disc is rolling. nothing is more depressing than ripping a roller that should go 400+ and hitting a root 75' away that makes your disc hop 12' in the air and roll 10' before tipping over.

anyone that can roll 400'+ on a roller that lands close to the tee can roll 500+ using the two methods above.
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Postby CincyKeith » Fri May 19, 2006 9:39 am

Blake_T wrote:it depends on what type of roller you are throwing.

there are two types of rollers that will go beyond your air shots:
1) sky roller
2) distance turnover roller

sky rollers are basically glorified controlled rollers and need to maintain more speed/spin than distance rollers, so they generally have to carry less distance in the air. landing with a lower trajectory will carry more momentum from the flight, but it depends a lot on the shot you are throwing. as a general rule, if i land a disc that is a sky roller between 200-275', my roller will go 360-400'.

distance turnover rollers will want to land when most of the speed/spin has burned out, generally after the disc has covered at least 70-80% of flight you could achieve in the air. basically, you want to throw them as far as you can in the air while still being able to land them on edge. these rollers will use mostly momentum to continue rolling, but since they are moving slower they will not turn topside. the "tickle roll" that happens at the end is variable, but you can often get upwards of 150' or more of roll while the disc is rolling quite slow. generally i try to land my distance turnover rollers beyond 300', often closer to 330+ (using ~360' as my average air shot). discs that are able to do this are usually very flippy and thrown as a hyzer flip to get this path.

while i have seen people who could throw rollers that land within 50' of the tee over 500' with overstable discs, this is generally not a good way to roll for D for two reasons:
1) the disc slows down much faster on the ground than it does in the air
2) terrain is more likely to mess up the way your disc is rolling. nothing is more depressing than ripping a roller that should go 400+ and hitting a root 75' away that makes your disc hop 12' in the air and roll 10' before tipping over.

anyone that can roll 400'+ on a roller that lands close to the tee can roll 500+ using the two methods above.


I understand that these two types of rollers would need a disc capable of turning over even when released with heizer. But what would you consider to be good applicants for these types of shots? Would say a beat to hell X avenger work?
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Sat May 20, 2006 2:03 am

beat to hell x avengers make excelent rollers, much better than a sidewinder, roadrunner, express.... I get better predictability out of them than any other discs, although the roadrunner was inconsitantly longest out of what ive tried :roll:
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Postby Weebl » Sat May 20, 2006 8:26 am

Stingray. I can get 400-450 with these bad boys, I'm concidering trying more distance focused rollers here soon with a disc more apt to D.
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Postby Blake_T » Sat May 20, 2006 8:33 am

keith,

the sky roller doesn't require as flippy a disc as a turnover roller. i generally carry 2 different flippy discs, 1 for each shot (both beat dx valks).

a beat x avenger would work, but is probably best in sub-170g.
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Postby roadkill » Sat May 20, 2006 8:55 am

Bigs,

My air distance averages 370-390. My distance rollers on short grass are 415-440. (I've had a few over 480, but that's very rare)

I think the key to distance rolls is your trajectory and landing. You want a high speed,low trajectory, soft landing(no bounce). When I'm throwing distance rollers I throw them at a moderate heigth. While it varies on what disc I'm throwing, I'd say on average they apex at about 10-12' high and land about 120-160' off the tee. People new to rolling have too much up and down trajectory. The power must be applied forward and the disc should naturally rotate on to its roll shoulder, not forced. (Basically a hyzer flip starting from flat or slight annie)

You need to minimize the harshness of impact when the disc hits the ground as harder impact will slow the spin down as well as possibly knock it slightly off balance which hurts speed and accuracy. My best distance rollers have literally come to a complete stop before flopping over. Any time the disc curls right or curls left at the end you've wasted power. If it holds a straight line until it stalls and does a slow motion flop you know you've maxed it out.

I like leopards(dx and se) for rolling because they hold a very controlled straight line(dx teebirds are decent also). Champ Orcs roll very far if put down right but are harder to be consistent with. If you try it with a champ orc they work best as downhill rollers as they hold an angle at high speeds better than most.

I haven't found any discraft molds that hold straight lines consistently. I use to roll XLs,flashes and z wildcats but they often turn hard right at the end of the roll.

Mike Moser swears by the champ beast for max distance rollers. I've witnessed him get within putting distance of holes 2 and 5 at Tinicum (long layout). Hole 2 is what 500? hole 5 in the long layout is aroung 575? Then again he's the mose. (actually I just checked and they are listed as 595 and 677)

I think the sky roller is best utlized to throw over objects rather than for distance. Anytime you throw a roller higher than 25-30' I believe you're sacrificing distance. Unless you have the power to land it 450' off the tee there's no way to make a 25-30 high roller land softly.
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