Which driver, groin problems and plateu V

Information, Questions, Discussion about Throwing Mechanics and Technique

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Which driver, groin problems and plateu V

Postby Frontman311 » Sun May 07, 2006 3:52 pm

Can throw 350 pretty consistenly, hit 390 maybe every once in a while, just keep throwing? I have probably gone from throwing 300 consistently to 350 in about 3 1/2 weeks after playing every day. So I have a feeling I should just keep throwing, I've read all the articles but I'm not sure if I should try any changes yet or just keep throwing. Heh, I almost refuse to actually plateau.

With that in mind, I was throwing normally the other day and in my x-step I had my weight on my back leg and started shifting it to my pivot foot and my groin (left) felt terribly strained, needless to say I couldn't really throw any more that day. Something wrong? I have felt a minor strain since then too, but only when throw for distance and this isn't even all the time...

Lastly, I have a beat in Z Flash, Champ. Valk, and Z XS...they all pretty much go the same distance only I flip my Flash, turn the Valk and throw the XS in a dead straight line...At my point in distance, should any of these be going further than the other? And should I look into other high speed drivers? I really don't want to buy into the hype of Wraith's and Starfire's and what not, mostly because I don't think I could throw them fast enough for one, and I hear they are harder to control...

Comments, questions...? Thanks a ton if you read any of that :D

*shout out to jacksweather* :roll:
Stay positive and love your life.
Frontman311
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 3:43 pm
Location: Chicago

Postby Thatdirtykid » Sun May 07, 2006 4:14 pm

I would say If you can use the flash as an anny disc you may find some added golf D from a pro starfire, x avenger (my choice), or something more stable than the flash. I wouldnt say a wraith (if you find youself flipping a new x avenger, orc or starfire) I would say you either have tons of power and could be throwing 500' or more likely it would be bad form. But Id say you would probably be ready to step up a notch.
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
Thatdirtykid
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3677
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Longmont Co
Favorite Disc: z pred

Postby Blake_T » Sun May 07, 2006 5:31 pm

the starfire will not be significantly farther than the flash, maybe on a magnitude of ~10' at the length you are currently throwing.

your d puts you at the upper part of the distance plateau, meaning a wraith will probably fly ~410' on a good pull.

it is doubtful that your D will keep going up beyond that without changes (in focus at least), but it has happened.

as for the groin, do you stretch before playing?
you may be pushing way too hard during your cross step.
Blake_T
Super Sekret Technique Jedi
 
Posts: 5824
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:44 am
Location: Minneapolis

Postby Frontman311 » Sun May 07, 2006 5:34 pm

I shall start stretching from now on, and I guess I'll really start going for consistency @ that distance then maybe try some other crazy things if I have the time, thanks.
Stay positive and love your life.
Frontman311
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 3:43 pm
Location: Chicago

Postby Bradley Walker » Sun May 07, 2006 7:51 pm

I started the snap program last week, so I am an infant.

Snap requires very little step and much more rotary hip drive (more rotary motion than linear motion).

I would guess a groin pull would come from a locked front leg during the drive at the hit. Just a guess...

I have been working on eliminating a lot of the linear leg drive in my motion.
Bradley Walker
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:46 pm
Favorite Disc: Roc

Postby roadkill » Mon May 08, 2006 6:14 am

Frontman,

My distance is similar to yours. The discs you're currently throwing would be considered flippy by today's standards. I would not go to the Wraith until you're hitting 425'. Instead I'd reccommend the pro starfire (my longest driver) or the x avenger. These are the next step up from the drivers you're currently using. They're also straighter than the wraith.

Be careful with the groin pain. I tried to play through some groin pain in Sept/October and I had to take six months off and I'm still only at 80%. Do butterfly stretches and hamstring stretches everyday. I few groin strengthening exercises (adductor & abductor) each day will help also. I think I have had a habit of taking too long of a stride. Without watching you I can't tell if you're guilty of this or not.
roadkill
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1317
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: in the truck
Favorite Disc: first run goblin

Postby TexasOutlaw » Mon May 08, 2006 8:06 am

Hopefully, it is not a groin strain because it takes a long time to come back from that injury. Stretching is very important to avoid injury.

The z flash was flippy for me. If you keep it for that purpose, an annhyzer disc, it works great.

I agree with the person that suggested an x avenger, less stable than a crush, easy to throw, and will not flip (well until you beat it up).
TexasOutlaw
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: south Texas

Postby Blake_T » Mon May 08, 2006 8:07 am

generationally speaking, the flash (designed in 2004) is newer than the starfire (designed in 2003) and the avenger (based on 2002 tech, first proto was a pred/wildcat hybrid).

i don't condone a wraith for him, but it's really the only thing that will yield a really noticeable increase over the flash. when that dangerous phrase appears of "i'm going to work on consistency," then that doesn't leave a lot of options for throwing farther.
Blake_T
Super Sekret Technique Jedi
 
Posts: 5824
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:44 am
Location: Minneapolis

Postby roadkill » Mon May 08, 2006 10:36 am

From my experience I'd say that the pro starfire has significant more golf distance than a flash. I can throw a flash pretty far, but only if I can throw it very high and have lots of room to work it left to right. The starfire will go farther on most golf lines.

Personally I can more consistently throw the starfire farther. I can throw the starfire 10 times and 8 out of ten will be 375-410 with maybe one botched throw going 350 and one perfect throw going 420. The flash would be 5 at 350 3 at 380 and 2 at 410. And for the flash to hit 400 I'd need 35' of ceiling and 100' of width. The starfire would only need 20' of heigth and 50' of width to go the same distance.

Of course I'm speaking of my experience, your mileage may vary.
roadkill
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1317
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: in the truck
Favorite Disc: first run goblin

Postby Blake_T » Mon May 08, 2006 2:30 pm

the starfire is a bit more stable than the flash and a lot more accurate.

similarly, i find the flash easier to throw as the starfire has to be thrown much harder.

as for your starfire vs. flash shootout, both peaked within 10' of each other, which is less than the requisite 5% distance change i require for deeming something "significant" :)

i've been able to put a flash over 400' on a 15' high apex and 10' of left/right, but i've also thrown it on a bigger line with a 35' high apex and 50' of left/right without adding much distance.

out of the flippier/faster drivers i generally preferred the pro orc, but those are MIA now.
Blake_T
Super Sekret Technique Jedi
 
Posts: 5824
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:44 am
Location: Minneapolis

Postby roadkill » Mon May 08, 2006 3:07 pm

The 10' difference you referred to in my post is comparing perfect throw vs perfect throw, and yes 10' is not significant.

However the majority (average) throw from each is like 350 for the Flash vs 385 for the Starfire. I deem this difference in distance significant. When I compare the performance of discs I compare the average throw of one to the average throw of another.

The once in awhile perfect throw comparisons have little value to me. I once threw a dx stingray 430 and a discraft cruiser 420 but I wouldn't throw them in a distance competition today.
roadkill
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1317
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: in the truck
Favorite Disc: first run goblin

Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon May 08, 2006 4:40 pm

a broken in avenger flies similar to a newer pro orc for me. Perfect for long hyzerflips that finish right. I can get a x avenger 325' before it cuts right for another 75', Sometimes throwing like that people look back and say I thought you threw that backhand, why did it fade right? :lol:
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
Thatdirtykid
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3677
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Longmont Co
Favorite Disc: z pred

Postby Frontman311 » Mon May 08, 2006 9:14 pm

Maybe I missed something, but what is a plateau anyway? How should I keep distance a focus before I move on to something else? Either way it seems like consistenly throwing further and further would only help a shorter consistency too in one way or another.

People are always saying "pro this" or "elite x that", what about Z and champ, are they really worse to throw? I can't stand the grip on the pro plastic, haven't thrown Star @ all either.

I thought an XL would fly a little further than the XS, or would it just go the same on a different line?

Haven't even begun thinking about snap either...thanks everyone for replying, very helpful. Much to consider, thanks again.
Stay positive and love your life.
Frontman311
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 3:43 pm
Location: Chicago

Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon May 08, 2006 10:23 pm

Z/Champ discs dont have the same glide as x/pro/dx/d/s or whatever plastics you want to compare. They also more low speed stable than their counterparts, meaning they will fall out of the air sooner. and as for plateaus... read blakes articles they explain alot, theres also a couple articles all about plastics and flight qualities.
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
Thatdirtykid
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3677
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Longmont Co
Favorite Disc: z pred

Postby Blake_T » Mon May 08, 2006 11:04 pm

a plateau = a spot where people linger without a significant change in technique. these seem to happen rather uniformly across developing players.

350-380' is about the range where about 98% of players peak.

generally (but not always), this is limited by snap.

for example, it is easier for someone that can strong arm 350' to break 425' than someone with "good" form that peaks at 350'. the reason is that the strong armer already has snap and just needs to add body, whereas the other thrower has to add snap.

the xs is longer than the xl, but the xl is more stable.
and yes, the different plastics DO have that much difference between them.
Blake_T
Super Sekret Technique Jedi
 
Posts: 5824
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 12:44 am
Location: Minneapolis

Next

Return to Technique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests