Seth Project and the Crippled Old Man (wrist extension)

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Postby Eric O » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:20 am

Dale,

It might be worthwhile for you to do a search looking for an older topic started by Bradley that goes in to a lot of detail in a discussion on the kind of wrist orientation stuff you are talking about. I wish I could give you a better description so you would be able to find it easier, but maybe Bradley remembers what I'm talking about. He posted a bunch of photos of himself gripping the disc in a manner to exaggerate the position the hand finishes in, within the thread I'm thinking of.
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Postby geoloseth » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:20 am

One thing that really stands out with throwing with wrist extension is that you can't wait for it to happen when your arm snaps. You have to get your wrist moving ahead of time. But you can't "force" it open or else you'll lose some of the potential. If you you watch some of the pro videos they aren't snapping the wrist at the hit but rather unwinding the wrist during the pull.

I think that Brad's 450 wraith shots were well within the realm of golf shots. The had about 20 to 25' of height but the didn't need to work out way left and the right to get that far. I would estimate that they only deviated about 10' from farthest left to farthest right.

I can honestly say that I know I now have more distance in me that just 400'. On my farthest drive of the night I didntfeel like I put more than 75% - 80% of my power into it. And getting the correct motion into your throw means that the hit power goes up exponentially rather than linear-ly. I can only hope for the day that I can put 95% to 100% in my drive and break 500' consistently.

I'll hit up the course today and try to get some video posted showing my old way and the correct way.
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Postby black udder » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:10 am

Dale - I can't speak to the health of how you're throwing, but my understanding is that what Bradley is talking about is throwing with the wrist cocked, but opening it up as you pull through, ending in the wrist being in the open position at the end.

I also believe that JR may have mentioned this awhile back and said that it had caused some wrist injuries.

Done right, I suspect that it's not dangerous; however, full power throwing to test it and doing it incorrectly might not be a wise idea.

I believe Bradley was throwing 400' before he went into these experiments, so he is well aware of how to throw, maximize his hit, etc.
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Postby freeus » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:45 am

Okay, time for me to re-think. I've been working to try and eliminate all the wrist extension from my throw because I though that was the reason all my attempts at distance were heading off to 2 o'clock instead of 12. How do you incorporate wrist extension and still keep it on line?

Also:
I started changing the angle of my wrist so that it was the opposite of "cocked" and this allowed me to AIM the disc nose down, if that makes sense. The palm side of my wrist is turned upward more, instead of perpendicular to the ground. It felt odd at first because I had never thrown this way, but the disc started traveling at least 50-80' farther instantly, with a much better nose angle - not yet nose down but fairly flat almost every time.

I stumbled across this exact same disc orientation a couple days ago and noticed immediate results as well. Been sick in bed since so haven't been able to try it again but it felt really promising.
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Postby JR » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:58 am

IIRC Blake injured his wrist letting the wrist flap freely to the right far without trying to stop the wrist.

I was cold and tired throwing after a break and my old unrelated injuries didn't take nicely to the stress. Seems to be getting better but I'll know more this weekend. Hope I dodged the bullet.

black udder wrote:Dale - I can't speak to the health of how you're throwing, but my understanding is that what Bradley is talking about is throwing with the wrist cocked, but opening it up as you pull through, ending in the wrist being in the open position at the end.

I also believe that JR may have mentioned this awhile back and said that it had caused some wrist injuries.

Done right, I suspect that it's not dangerous; however, full power throwing to test it and doing it incorrectly might not be a wise idea.

I believe Bradley was throwing 400' before he went into these experiments, so he is well aware of how to throw, maximize his hit, etc.
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Postby Blake_T » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:52 pm

I've been working to try and eliminate all the wrist extension from my throw because I though that was the reason all my attempts at distance were heading off to 2 o'clock instead of 12. How do you incorporate wrist extension and still keep it on line?


your timing/body positioning is off. this is the 4th time i've posted this list this week.
1. starting pull too early
2. not keeping the disc tight enough during the pull.
3. not getting weight forward

Blake injured his wrist letting the wrist flap freely to the right far without trying to stop the wrist.


partially true. i had it completely loose but i also had the disc orientation bad in my hand. i was experimenting doing some throws with my hand on top of the disc and the disc almost perpendicular to the seam of the hand. it's more that it was loose but unable to unhige correctly and when it extended it tore some connective tissue and partially dislocated.

result of it: keep the disc parallel to your forearm and parallel to the seam of the hand. don't let your wrist go completely loose, but do not make it really tight either. think "moderately relaxed."
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Postby black udder » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:28 pm

Blake - any comments regarding what a couple folks earlier were saying? About opening the wrist completely before the pull through and letting it sort of bounce in and back open?
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Postby Aaron_D » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:29 pm

I dont pre-cock. During the pull when you bring the disc past your chest your wrist auto-cocks.
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Postby geoloseth » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:30 pm

Brad and I aren't preloading our wrists. Like Aaron said, the motion of pulling your arm to your chest will naturally cause your wrist to load. What I'm trying to do is conciously unload the wrist as I'm accelerating toward the snap. Even without throwing like I'm mad at it the discs are coming out insanly fast with tons of spin and just about all the time I can feel and hear it ripping off of my fingers starting with the ring finger and working down to the index.

FYI I just landed about 20' shy of a 390' hole with a narrowing fairway. I'd say its paying off great dividends.
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Postby Blake_T » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:53 pm

any comments regarding what a couple folks earlier were saying? About opening the wrist completely before the pull through and letting it sort of bounce in and back open?


starting with the wrist open leads to drive spray and doesn't add any distance.
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Postby geoloseth » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:28 pm

We're not trying to pull with the wrist open, but rather opening the wrist open as you accelerate the arm toward the snap. When I'm focusing on the hit I want my wrist to look like it's pointed at 2 o'clock when my elbow snaps. When I'm warming up and trying to get my wrist to loosen I'll try to release the disc early by using wrist snap, but that's the only time my wrist is fully open before the hit.

When it comes to tendon bounce, if you can keep your wrist loose and moving naturally you should feel the tendons pulling and releasing the stored energy throughout the entire pull from the time the elbow bends and the disc comes to your chest to the time you hit and the discs explodes out of your hand.
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Postby black udder » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:40 pm

Blake was responding to me, I had asked about a couple posts on page 1 where folks where throwing with their wrists open to start with, then as they pulled through, they cocked, then blasted open again.
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Postby geoloseth » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:19 pm

cool. I didn't want any confusion.
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Postby JR » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:50 am

geoloseth wrote:We're not trying to pull with the wrist open, but rather opening the wrist open as you accelerate the arm toward the snap. When I'm focusing on the hit I want my wrist to look like it's pointed at 2 o'clock when my elbow snaps.


Just to be sure I think that your wrist get from less than 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock only as the elbow is straight and the wrist is the only part able to move without consciously moving the wrist forward. With powering the disc motion from left to right by the wrist the disc is probably closer to 12 o'clock than 2 o'clock towards the end of the elbow extension. For you right? Doesn't the 2 o'clock happen for you when the elbow is already straight for bent elbow throws?
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Postby geoloseth » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:06 am

JR wrote:Doesn't the 2 o'clock happen for you when the elbow is already straight for bent elbow throws?


Yes, the wrist should be opening up to 12 o'clock when everything is hit. The wrist should then flex to about 2 o'clock after the disc is already released.
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