Seth Project and the Crippled Old Man (wrist extension)

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Postby geoloseth » Fri May 09, 2008 7:42 pm

rehder wrote:Hey I want to see someone throw 500 in an unorthodox form


There's nothing unorthodox about throwing with wrist extension. If you want to see something really unorthodox that can go far is a thumber roller. I've only seen one guy do it once and it went about 485.
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Postby masterbeato » Fri May 09, 2008 10:22 pm

roman wrote:I think I may have felt whatever you guys are describing in this thread. My average D with a Buzz is 300-350ft. Whatever I did on one of the drives today felt like a damn catapult loading up and then unwinding right at the rip. The Buzz blasted out on the cleanest hyzer flip line I've ever seen. It didn't turn over much, just flipped straight and faded back left 400 feet down the fairway (no wind). That's Beast/Wraith territory for me. Unreal. I couldn't repeat that throw or that feel again. I need to figure it out, because it was great.


Welcome to big "POP" territory. It's a wonderful feeling isn't it? As long as you get the big pop, no matter how many people may be out throwing you still, it doesn't NOT make you a big arm. You get the big pop your a big arm their is no question. Big arms are the same in a matter of getting that pop, they are big arms and that's still fun to watch. Just because someone throws a 500' shot and you throw a 430' shot, your still world class. I mean in consistency. People can throw 500' without it with like a surge or a destroyer or something, but if your throwing a teebird 430' on a line drive, think if you threw a line drive with a destroyer, that's a 500' line drive without using as much fairway as those guys are. But if your getting that big ass pop, I would not recommend a destroyer or a force.

Just because they are overstable does not mean they are high speed stable. Xcaliber people say are overstable pigs, not true, I threw one it flipped like a rockstar's groupie on new years eve after a van halen concert.

High speed stable = true stable.
overstable = gay meditation brainwash session.

is it ok if i start calling you roman N00dles?
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Postby rehder » Sat May 10, 2008 12:40 am

geoloseth wrote:
rehder wrote:Hey I want to see someone throw 500 in an unorthodox form


There's nothing unorthodox about throwing with wrist extension. If you want to see something really unorthodox that can go far is a thumber roller. I've only seen one guy do it once and it went about 485.


Well, it just sounded like Brad had come up with a way to throw far, without contorting your back. For me it looks like many people have thows that do that, including my own. It was from that standpoint, that I called it unorthodox.
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Postby tumpsi » Sat May 10, 2008 4:53 am

rehder wrote:
geoloseth wrote:
rehder wrote:Hey I want to see someone throw 500 in an unorthodox form


There's nothing unorthodox about throwing with wrist extension. If you want to see something really unorthodox that can go far is a thumber roller. I've only seen one guy do it once and it went about 485.


Well, it just sounded like Brad had come up with a way to throw far, without contorting your back. For me it looks like many people have thows that do that, including my own. It was from that standpoint, that I called it unorthodox.

You guys should see the Finnish DG champion 2007 (former javelin thrower), Ville Piippo throw overhead shots. He can break 500', and hit 450' consistently. That is freakin' unorthodox. (Sorry for posting this again and again in different threads, but the guy is so amazing that everyone should see him throw. :D)
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Postby rehder » Sat May 10, 2008 6:50 am

heh, I dont know if its amazing that he can throw overhead shots that far. His shoulders are the size of my buttcheek. He is huge! It is amazing to watch though.

BTW. Tumpsi, is there anything to the rumors that are going on the swedish boards?
http://www.discgolfsweden.se/forum/inde ... opic=842.0
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Postby Bradley Walker » Sat May 10, 2008 8:05 am

You guys work on this disc pivot. Look a the videos of the Fling.

Trust me, you will not regret it.

I played yesterday and all I could say was "whoa" and "hey" a lot. I am not throwing hard either as I really can't cut loose (and I do not need to really) because my back is healing.
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Postby geoloseth » Sat May 10, 2008 6:27 pm

one of the biggest advantages of knowing how to get your wrist properly involved in the throw is that it allows you (or at least me) to throw a 330' shot on a line while only having to exude about 60% power. I'm not having to give the disc everything I've got to keep it on its line, the spin that is created does that for me.

Definitely try to get everything you can out of the video and seriously put in the effort to utilize it on your game. I had a hard time keeping myself focused on letting the wrist extend when I first started practicing. But now its just another part of the throw that comes naturally.
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Postby Beetard » Sat May 10, 2008 7:52 pm

Is this the same as the legendary "big pop" that masterbeato speaks of?

How do you get good wrist extension while maitaining a tight grip? Gripping seems like it makes my wrist harder to extend.
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Postby geoloseth » Sat May 10, 2008 8:13 pm

Beetard wrote:Is this the same as the legendary "big pop" that masterbeato speaks of?

How do you get good wrist extension while maitaining a tight grip? Gripping seems like it makes my wrist harder to extend.


If you focus too much on gripping tightly then you will lose some of the wrist movement. I think the key is to make sure your thumb and index finger are tightly griped. Then a little more loosely is your middle finger and so on down to your pinky. If you get the right amount of pressure in the right fingers then you will feel the tendons bounce and hear the disc rip off of your fingers starting with the pinky up to the index finger.
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Postby Beetard » Wed May 14, 2008 8:28 pm

I tried your roll and fling technique last night. I got about 50 throws in at a field. All of my disc were flying about 25 feet further than nomal right from the get-go, so I see some real promise in working on this technique as well as working on my form. I was throwing a banshee and an X2 300, a Wraith 330, a Crush and a starfire about 320, (all of previous anhyzer) and my Valk, when I didn't turn it over, at least 330. Got 300 out of a leapord and a dragon (hyzer flip) I was throwing on a practice football field and only a couple of my throws didn't make it past the goal post.

Out of the 50, I think I had one super rip (well, for me anyway) but the line was very low and anhyzer. It (a starfire) went 320 and landed prematurely. Had the throw been a littel higher, it might have made it to 350 or 360. The disc looked like it may have been flying nose down, or maybe it was just the anny.

Today I tried it on the course while it was raining (rained all day) Didn't work too well with wet discs. I played a very poor game spraying drives all over the place and only throwing about as far as usual. I'll have to let you know what happens on the course after some more practice and dryer weather.

To JR,
You looked a little confused about the "fling" concept. This is not the same as finger spring in putting. No, you do not need fast fingers for this to work. The technique is just gripping less with your pinkie, a little more than your pinkie with the ring finger, more than that with the middle and mainly with the index. You allow the disc to "roll" out of your hand, ripping from each finger one by one, and pivot on the index finger. Your wrist can extend farther and faster because there is less tension in your forearm holding the wrist back than if you were just bearing down on the disc with all of your fingers.
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Postby geoloseth » Wed May 14, 2008 8:43 pm

Beetard wrote:I tried your roll and fling technique last night. I got about 50 throws in at a field. All of my disc were flying about 25 feet further than nomal right from the get-go, so I see some real promise in working on this technique as well as working on my form.

Out of the 50, I think I had one super rip (well, for me anyway) but the line was very low and anhyzer. It (a starfire) went 320 and landed prematurely. Had the throw been a littel higher, it might have made it to 350 or 360. The disc looked like it may have been flying nose down, or maybe it was just the anny.

Today I tried it on the course while it was raining (rained all day) Didn't work too well with wet discs. I played a very poor game spraying drives all over the place and only throwing about as far as usual. I'll have to let you know what happens on the course after some more practice and dryer weather.


Don't get discouraged. The same things happened to me in the field when I first started trying to throw with more wrist involvement. Until you get the hang of it, the most likely shot coming out will be a nose down anhyzer. What I've found to be the key is throwing with just the right amount of hyzer, because the natural motion of the wrist flexing will be to have the disc come out slightly anhyzer. I think I posted on here about the tendencies of wrist motions with different angles of a bent wrist.

I also had the same experiences with my first round of golf. None of my drives were going the way I wanted them to except they all came out nose down. Just take the time to get used to it and find the motions that work best with your pull and everything will fall into place beautifully. It doesn't take long to get comfortable with the throwing motion. In fact after about 3 weeks I placed second in the advanced division of our weekly mini, and did so again last weekend (even beat some of the open guys).

The key to throwing amazing drives is the same as making good putts. Slow everything down, know what works for you, and make everything smooth. When I did that I was astonished at how far the discs were going. Only putting in about 60% power and hitting the wrist extension at the right time I put my Flash out to 360' through a tightly wooded gap to snag a deuce that I have barely ever made in the past. It'll all start falling into place.
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Postby Beetard » Wed May 14, 2008 8:44 pm

Hey, wow, I just became a tree magnet! I have the right to chip bark. Any disc I throw can and will be used against me in a game of golf.
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Postby JR » Thu May 15, 2008 12:06 am

Beetard wrote:To JR,
You looked a little confused about the "fling" concept. This is not the same as finger spring in putting. No, you do not need fast fingers for this to work. The technique is just gripping less with your pinkie, a little more than your pinkie with the ring finger, more than that with the middle and mainly with the index. You allow the disc to "roll" out of your hand, ripping from each finger one by one, and pivot on the index finger. Your wrist can extend farther and faster because there is less tension in your forearm holding the wrist back than if you were just bearing down on the disc with all of your fingers.


Congrats on added distance.

I think you read me wrong. You're talking of grips alone here. I was talking of adding more time with the disc in contact with the thrower for more power generation added to the fling. Two separate matters that both can add to the spin rate of discs. I have no success with drives and extending the fingers but for slow low powered approaches I've had some success in extending my fingers a bit but certainly not anywhere near to straight at the target at the rip. Straightening of the fingers does also add some speed to the disc not only spin. At putter distances finger straightening for a later disc pivot between the fingers is noticeable in the flight path and distance of the putt.

The motion that the fingers need to make in extension is similar to finger spring in putts. Don't know how others use finger spring in putting so can't tell if my way is the orthodox way and if the attempts at straightening fingers partially or fully for longer throws than putts for me is identical to conventional finger spring.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Postby Beetard » Tue May 20, 2008 7:43 pm

Still working on my wrist extension. 3 more practice sessions since the last time.

Still kinda wild with the ahyzers, especially when I really try to lean over my plant foot as I throw.

Still not sure whether I am getting nose down or not. Do nose down drives usually lose height more quickly? Do you have to throw them higher to get the extra D potential they have?

My standout drives have been a 300 foot aviar, a 310 roc, a 310 banshee, and a 350 Z crush. All of the former drives had a good straight, low line.

Usually getting 325-330 with any given driver, some 340s within the first 20-30 throws before I start getting a little tired. My form, focus, speed, and timing all start dropping off after 30 or 40 throws. (I throw at least 100)

Getting sore and tired in general. Abs, obliques, right lat, legs a lil bit. I think I would gain another 10 feet by resting up for a couple of days, but I think I am starting to develop some feel and muscle memory and don't want to quit practicing until I am really hitting it.
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Postby JR » Tue May 20, 2008 10:13 pm

If the front of the disc is lower than the rear meaning good nose down then the disc will fall quicker. Throwing a bit higher works well. The steeper the dive after the apex the higher you have to throw.

Learning is difficult. If you were able to write down in detail what each body part does then perhaps you could replicate what you're doing if you take a break. Throwing while rested has the benefit of faster acceleration for more bending of the wrist which should be easier to feel. Since so many places get sore for you I think it'll take moths to get comfortable and sit ups making twisting sit ups too should help. Weights for the arms can't be bad either. Not just yet before you remember what you're doing because training muscles makes them stiffer and really messes up timing and feeling of the wrist extension. For te next day for me anyway. YMMV.

Beetard wrote:Still working on my wrist extension. 3 more practice sessions since the last time.

Still kinda wild with the ahyzers, especially when I really try to lean over my plant foot as I throw.

Still not sure whether I am getting nose down or not. Do nose down drives usually lose height more quickly? Do you have to throw them higher to get the extra D potential they have?

My standout drives have been a 300 foot aviar, a 310 roc, a 310 banshee, and a 350 Z crush. All of the former drives had a good straight, low line.

Usually getting 325-330 with any given driver, some 340s within the first 20-30 throws before I start getting a little tired. My form, focus, speed, and timing all start dropping off after 30 or 40 throws. (I throw at least 100)

Getting sore and tired in general. Abs, obliques, right lat, legs a lil bit. I think I would gain another 10 feet by resting up for a couple of days, but I think I am starting to develop some feel and muscle memory and don't want to quit practicing until I am really hitting it.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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