Rocs and the wind

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Rocs and the wind

Postby MeanGreen » Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:21 pm

I decided to try and improve my form by driving with a Roc for awhile, but I have problems in the wind. When it's windy, the disc begins turning right almost immediately and holds that turn for the majority of the flight. I thought it might be off-axis torque, but when it's calm (5 mph or so), I do not have this problem, and I get great results. However, when it gets windy, I cannot use the disc at all. Even from a hyzer, it will quickly flatten and turn right.

My question is this: is there an upper limit to how much wind a mid-range can take? My home course is rather windy most of the time (regularly 20+ mph). Sometimes it's more like 25-30 mph. Should I be able to throw a Roc in these conditions?

Thanks a lot.
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Postby victorb » Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:28 pm

A headwind simulates a faster throwing speed of a disc when compared to calm conditions.

Relative to the wind:
-A disc moves "faster" in a headwind, and therefore acts more understable.
-A disc moves "slower" with a tailwind, and therefore acts more stable.
-A disc moves at normal speed in no wind, and acts normally in its flight.

Since mid ranges have lower speed requirements in the throw, the understability of the disc will be amplified greatly when driving into a headwind.

I think it is possible to throw a roc into this type ow wind, but due to the nature of the disc you will probably want something more stable (ie Gator, Drone, Demon) so it doesn't flip as easily into a headwind.
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Postby Blake_T » Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:48 pm

this depends a lot on how new the roc is, how far you are throwing, etc.

rocs are great wind discs up to about 15 mph. beyond that, it is more hit or miss, but generally they should not abruptly flatten and turn hard right unless it is a very beat roc, a VERY strong headwind, or there is off-ais torque.

have you tried throwing sweeping hyzers into the wind? if these still flatten it is likely torque.
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Postby redspexxx » Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:12 am

i had the same problem. it just seems to me that any disc i throw into a headwind 10mph+, it turns over. i just put a little hyzer on the disc and it stays pretty stright
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Postby MeanGreen » Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:26 am

Thanks for the responses.

Blake, I can throw a Roc around 230 ft, so I don't have a lot of power. If I put enough hyzer on it, it will hold that angle and not flatten. I think you answered my question with your comment about Rocs being good up until 15 mph. I live in North Texas, and much of the time the wind is above 20 mph. The course I play has many relatively open holes that allow the wind to hit you full force.

I started off playing most shots with drivers--even if I should have been using a mid-range or putter. Since finding your site and browsing your articles and this forum, I've been trying to develop more shots and make greater use of my putter and mid-range. My dilemma is that on my home course it's so windy that it's often hard to use those discs. Should I continue using my Rocs in the wind, or should I do something else?

Thanks.
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Postby Blake_T » Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:50 pm

something to be known about headwinds:
i never throw flat into them as this nearly guarentees a disc will turn over.

north texas is one of the few areas where there is consitent wind problems. however, there are many pros in that area (as well as oklahoma) that throw rocs as their primary midrange.

while there are situations where rocs will not be the disc of choice, i would suggest experimenting with trajectories and comparing how those affect stability.

e.g. if you pull a hyzer to the right vs. throw it straight ahead you should get two distinctly different flight paths.
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Postby Terrence » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:07 pm

I was practicing hyzering my KC roc this afternoon. It took me quite a few throws, but I found just the right amount of hyzer and speed to give it a nice long fade. I can see why it's a recommended practice disc. It's rather .."finnicky", just a little too much velocity and it flips right over and holds a turnover.

I've owned that KC rock for a couple years and I'm just now throwing it regularly. I've been a Buzzz user since I started but I can see some advantages for the Roc. I might pick up a DX Roc as well.
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:28 pm

rocs tend to fly how you throw them.

if your roc is above 175g and not super beat, it shouldn't want to flip in calm conditions (or tail and crosswinds) unless you are putting 350'+ power on it.

generally people try to over-throw them and end up torquing them over and equate it's the power flipping the disc, not the tech. breakdown that occurs when people try to overpower stuff.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:43 pm

Not to hijack a thread, but I have a z wasp that does well in everything except 45 mph headwinds (i learned this yesterday). Once the wind hits that hard, I need to walk to the truck to get my demon.

Something else I've been doing in the wind is throwing knife hyzers with my esp avenger.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:56 pm

when the wind gets to be too much for a new D wasp, I perfer to step up to a Z avenger or pred anyways. I do carry a Z wasp though, and do use it in the wind for added predictability over the D.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:37 pm

You know my z pred was my wind disc for ages; I still carry it, but it doesnt handle wind as well as my esp avenger or wraith. You think I should get a new one?
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Postby Blake_T » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:52 pm

yes, your pred is broken in.

z preds handle wind much better than avengers and wraiths.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:05 pm

that has to be very broken in. My broken in Z pred was still more stable than a new Z avenger, and a broken in Z avenger was still more stable than any wraith (havent tried star which is supposed to be most stable)
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Postby Weebl » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:18 pm

Give me a new KC Pro Roc and I'll laugh at any amount of wind. For straight headwind shots I've been noticing my Wizard plowing through better than my Rocs...
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Postby Terrence » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:16 pm

Blake_T wrote:generally people try to over-throw them and end up torquing them over and equate it's the power flipping the disc, not the tech. breakdown that occurs when people try to overpower stuff.


Blake:
I now understand what you mean. I was out practicing in a soccer field and I realized I was moving my arm in an arc instead of pulling. After some more practice I was smoothly realasing the Roc and not torquing it over! The KC Roc is now my disc of choice for many holes. It does indeed fly how it's thrown. It helped me fix a simple mistake and gain some serious distance.
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