For Us Older Newbies....

[daleh2013]

Maybe so but they all fly a bit differently for me. The Blizzards I throw the furthest. Some I can pull off a flex shot, others straight with a little fade, still others with a predictable hyzer. My mid range seem to suit me very well so those stay for sure. Getting all of the discs were a trial and error thing with me since there isn't too much info out there for us that took up the game a bit later in life.

[aerohusker]

I totally agree, i recently took the Dominator out, I'd like to take a couple more out and only carry 14-16 discs.

Please look over list and see what you'd take out?

1.Tern 168 good distants, still new
2. Blizz Katana 157 (most consistent, farthest driver)
3. Blizz Destroyer 156 ?????
4. Blizz Boss 156, also use for sidearm
5. Blizz Tee Devil 157 (alittle straighter then boss, pretty close)
6. Champ Archon 166 keeper (anhyser)
7. Champ Orc 166 ???
8. Eagle 170 Keeper
9. Tee Bird 166 keeper
10. Star Vulcan 166 ???? becoming a little flippy???
11. Champ Starfire 175 (my windy driver) keeper
12. Roc 168 keeper
13. Mako 170 keeper
14. Monarch 168 nice disc, roller, big anhyzer
15. Buzz 175 don't use much, need to learn
16. Yetti 175 keeper
17. Champ TL 170 keeper

[JR]

I totally agree, i recently took the Dominator out, I'd like to take a couple more out and only carry 14-16 discs.

Please look over list and see what you'd take out?

1.Tern 168 good distants, still new
2. Blizz Katana 157 (most consistent, farthest driver)
3. Blizz Destroyer 156 ?????
4. Blizz Boss 156, also use for sidearm
5. Blizz Tee Devil 157 (alittle straighter then boss, pretty close)
6. Champ Archon 166 keeper (anhyser)
7. Champ Orc 166 ???
8. Eagle 170 Keeper
9. Tee Bird 166 keeper
10. Star Vulcan 166 ???? becoming a little flippy???
11. Champ Starfire 175 (my windy driver) keeper
12. Roc 168 keeper
13. Mako 170 keeper
14. Monarch 168 nice disc, roller, big anhyzer
15. Buzz 175 don't use much, need to learn
16. Yetti 175 keeper
17. Champ TL 170 keeper

The reason to use fewer discs besides saving money is to learn to get all the shots you need with few discs so that you know exactly what the discs do and add to your skills. Which lowers the score permanently while reducing the chance of a planning failure picking up a wrong disc. When the discs are not alike it is more rare to pick a false disc.

You listed a lot of keepers already so based on that i'd choose between the Monarch and the Archon for annies and since one of them is listed as a keeper bye bye Monarch. Since Rocs and Makos are keepers the Buzz seems like a third wheel. Maybe not in the wind though. Orc is a distance disc and overlaps with the Blizzards. But it has the shortest wing so either keeping a Bliz like the Orc flight and powering wise or dropping a similar Bliz should probably be done to avoid overlapping. Since the Vulcan can anny well it might be a candidate for dropping since the Archon works for you in that role. The Katana description screams keep me but you should do a shoot out with it against the Tern because they are probably quite close to each other. If they are close enough you could keep one as a back up and replace the primary with the other when the primary wears or is lost. Some carry Eagles and Teebirds together others one of those or discs that do the same as one or both of those roughly. A popular choice is to use PDs or OLFs. They are faster so they'd overlap with Blizzards, Archon, Vulcan, Orc... So i'd leave a speed 7 in the bag. Leaving both is a matter of taste and where you play. Eagles are more versatile since they come in many different stabilities. And fly on more lines if you can manipulate them. Destro, Boss and Teedevil are farily close to each other so i'd pick the one that is the farthest removed toward more wind handling and left finishes from the Katana/Tern/Orc.

OTOH things get messier if you control the Archon or the Vulcan for distance. At power neither are that dependable especially in the wind but Katanas at least have that problem too. I haven't thrown the Tern so i'm going with only hearsay on it.

[daleh2013]

I agree as well...the discs I'm mostly experimenting with are the distance discs. Plus, what I have that look to be overlapping maybe aren't because a few of them are white. Since we play all year the white discs get put away because of the snow. It was an opportunity to try something similar but in a color that can be seen in the snow. No doubt I will be thinning things down a bit as well. My mid-range and approach/putters are non-negotiable though; I know exactly what they do. With that, this is my "core group":

1. Champ Leopard (Subtle Annies)
2. DX Leopard (Big Annies)
3. Z Glide (Shorter than my Leopards and Annies between the two)
4. Z Zombie (straight, small fade; flies like a hot Buzz)
5. Z Buzz
6. Z Buzz SS (Annies a bit more than my Buzz)
7. DX Skeeter (Hyzer, Anhyzer but controlled glide with bite on landing)
8. DX Kite (Trouble shots, hyzer, anhyzer with lots of glide and slides on landing)
9. Dart (mid putter)
10. Aviar (close putts, long aproach putts)

My Wahoo is only for water shots I'm iffy about making. My Glo Valkyrie is for playing at or just after dusk. The distance discs I'll keep experimenting with and will determine what will work the best for me.

The rest, plus a few I didn't mention are in a "borrow bag" that I let folks that do not have their own discs give the game a try.

Thanks for all of the comments and rreplies; I am learning a great deal!

[PMantle]

way too many fast discs

No such thing.

[JR]

Okay try one disc rounds with all of the fast discs then with a mid then a putter PMantle. You can have many fast discs in the bag without troubles as long as each has a distinct non overlapping role meaning not too many molds but back ups and worn versions of the same as well as new ones. Once you get a rotation of the same discs in different stages of wear going they fill more roles than you'll think with just mold. It is possible to make do with one moderately overstable mold when you have beat enough to anny discs in the mix. That is part of the attraction of the Destroyer. Some are fairly beefy and Pros last a while even for pros in an anny role. Naturally DX does not survive long in the hands of a power player so it is good luck that the Pro does well in an anny role after breaking in for a power thrower.

Daleh i don't know how fast the punch can be trained to in your age and what your putting style is. All i know is that a quicker elbow straightening helps in both spin and pitch putts and Wii Sports boxing with the remote control in the hand increased my putting distance and accuracy thanks to a faster arm movement in the putting stroke. Which made Aviar style putters fly to medium distances in the putt eliminating the need of long discs for long putting ranges=Dart in your case. Over time if you can add power or switch form for longer putts. throwing with the front and rear of the disc level adds putting distance as do flat hyzer/anhyzer angle flights. Raising the arm to pitch the disc a little helps with spin putts too. Bending the knees and pointing them to the front sides allows dropping the arm between the legs and bending the upper body own in the reach back like Locastro et al. Raising the release to forehead level or higher pitches the disc high in a rising arc adding instant distance. Pushing fast forward with the hips once you bring the arm forward late in the putt adds some power too but it is even more useful for aiming as long as you push at the aiming point.

I can make the Kite and the Skeeter do the same things because they are so close. Not close enough to interchange when new without throw modification but thinking of them as the same mold in different stages of wear makes them perform the same role for me throwing them close enough similarly. So there might not be a need to eliminate one of them. Although i'd say that with practice learning to manipulate the flight will help in reducing the score and making either of those discs to do what the other one does so the other could become a back up.

i haven't thrown the Zombie so how is it like a hot Buzz? What are the flight differences and does it throw the same? If so it could be argued to be just another Buzz in your bag and not overlapping if the accuracy and consistency is the same for you. So no need to choose and drop a mold in that case. But do the Glide and the Buzz SS overlap for you? Both are shorter than Leos anny discs for you.

[daleh2013]

JR, you must have enhanced psychic abilities! I was practicing my putting yesterday and decided to try the "Snake Strike" putt that Dave Dunipace demonstrated. I had to modify my stance a little but found that at least for me the added snap increased my distance and accuracy. I am still playing both putters and may discard one at some point. It seems to me though that the Dart fights the wind better while the Aviar glides somewhat better. Time will tell...

To offer an answer to your other questions I do see a difference in the Kite and Skeeter. THe Kite tends to slide a bit when landing while the Skeeter stops much more quickly. Also, the flight pattern of the Kite is a bit more severe than the Skeeter. My Zombee moves like my Buzz but further. Fairly straight flight, nice predictable fade at the end. My Buzz SS annies better for me so I use that when the shot calls for it. At this point I'll call m Glide a "gap filler". It and the Zombee have sililar distances but the Glide annies very well for me. The Glide is a bit shorter than the Leopards but longer than the Buzz and Buzz SS.

Everyone id different but that is how those discs perform for me at the moment. As skill increases the flights will probably change as well. I'll take any advantage I can get!!

[JR]

I only have a Star Skeeter and it flips more and fades just a little less than the Kite. The way you describe your discs i think you probably don't need the glide to mess up shot planning because the gap between the Buzz and the Leo is not great fade wise and you can control the power with many means which should be learned. Skill over equipment so reaching back less, taking fewer or slower steps, planting with the toes pointed closer to the target and not accelerating so hard with the muscles all can power down the Leo nicely to cover the flight paths that the Glide takes at similar distances. Buzz annies well does the longer Zombee too? Because the gap to the Leo is not that long anyhow from the Z Buzz. Even the Zombee could be redundant once you learn distance control with the Leos.

[aerohusker]

(I think we need to rename this thread, helping Grandmaster newbs!)

After 3-4 weeks and 8-10 rounds later my bag has changed a little:

1.Tern 168 good distant, still new. 4/9 still new, might get taken out.
2. Blizz Katana 157 (most consistent, farthest driver) 4/9 still rocking!
3. Blizz Destroyer 156 ????? 4/9 might get taken out, using 150 Destroyer
4. Blizz Boss 156, also use for sidearm 4/9 my hyser disc
5. Blizz Tee Devil 157 (alittle straighter then boss, pretty close) 4/9 This has become my go to driver, that and Katana
6. Champ Archon 166 keeper (anhyser) 4/9 lost and replaced with 166 Beast for Annie shots
7. Champ Orc 166 ??? ---------- 4/9 out!
8. Eagle 170 Keeper 4/9 keeper
9. Tee Bird 166 keeper 4/9 keeper
10. Star Vulcan 166 ???? becoming a little flippy??? 4/9 keeper used as a annie
11. Champ Starfire 175 (my windy driver) keeper 4/9 keeper
12. Roc 168 keeper 4/9 keeper
13. Mako 170 keeper 4/9 keeper
14. Monarch 168 nice disc, roller, big anhyzer 4/9 keeper
15. Buzz 175 don't use much, need to learn --------- 4/9 out! added star aviar p&a for distant putts
16. Yetti 175 keeper 4/9 lost!!!! walked away and left it!!!! now using 170 Yeti
17. Champ TL 170 keeper 4/9 keeper
4/9 Leopard new disc, have hard time throwing it due to bad form throw too stable discs, but will work with it!

[daleh2013]

I like the Grandmaster Newbs; seems very fitting. I've been practicing lots lately and have played maybe 4 different courses in the last month. Currently working on throwing technique concentrating on weight shift, approach accuracy and better putting. Not working on raw distance per sae but with a better technique I've picked up a bit so that's a nice benefit. This is what's now in my bag; I've used them all depending upon the shot, wind, course , etc. Looks like overlap I'm sure but the all do fly a little differently for me...varying degrees of hyzers and annies. So, this is what I have and will probably stick with:

1. Wahoo, in case I need a floater.
2. Glo Valkyrie for those just after dusk shots at the end.
3. Champ Beast 170, straight with a predictable fade
4. Z Nuke SS 168, good flex shot, consistently.
5. Z Avenger SS 165
6. Blizz Boss 146, one of my furthest discs
7. Blizz Destroyer 155, very good in the wind for me
8. Blizz Katana 145
9. Blizz Krait 150
10. Champ Mamba 150, new disc and a favorite, long flex shot
11. DX Beast 165, flip annies
12. Pro Boss 150, another favorite but getting older and more flippy
13. Z Glide, favorite for several specific holes at different courses I've played
14. Champ Leopard 166, long fairway shots
15. DX Leopard 165, long fairway with workable annie
16. Z Zombee 167, long and straight, tunnel shots
17. Z Buzz 172, approaches with predictable fade
18. Z Buzz SS 170, approaches with flex or annie
19. DX Skeeter 166, approaches that "stick" when landing and for long putts
20. DX Kite 166, "trouble" disc that is very workable both ways, slides a bit upon landing
21. DX Dart 163, putts
22. DX Aviar, putts

[PMantle]

Okay try one disc rounds with all of the fast discs then with a mid then a putter PMantle. You can have many fast discs in the bag without troubles as long as each has a distinct non overlapping role meaning not too many molds but back ups and worn versions of the same as well as new ones. Once you get a rotation of the same discs in different stages of wear going they fill more roles than you'll think with just mold. It is possible to make do with one moderately overstable mold when you have beat enough to anny discs in the mix. That is part of the attraction of the Destroyer. Some are fairly beefy and Pros last a while even for pros in an anny role. Naturally DX does not survive long in the hands of a power player so it is good luck that the Pro does well in an anny role after breaking in for a power thrower.

[sarcasm]I am thinking of buying a second bag just to carry high speed drivers. Maybe carry 20 of them, then the old bag can carry the rest.[/sarcasm]


I now have a lot of drivers, but do not carry all every round. Lots depends on the wind. Here's a description:

Only for into strong winds: 175 Star Detroyer. Really overstable at my speed. 17? ESP Avenger. Even more overstable. For extreme R to L lines into wind.

Typical calm day lineup from over to under:

166 Q-Scorpius(Don't always carry due to new tern)
165 Ch. Tern(I throw this any chance I get. Right now it's acting like a Destroyer with more glide)
14? Blizz Destroyer(When max disance with little care for direction is needed. Becoming more flippy by the day)
167 Pro Destroyer(Flips up to flat and can take a finish on a right line or dead straight depending on wind. Has the lowest fade of any driver I've ever seen)
16? Archon and Astra(Almost interchangeable. Never carry both. For high hyzers over stuff that won't flip all the way over or turns around the corner that the Pro Destro won't do)
16? Mamba(Downwind drives and a couple drives under trees that must glide and go L to R)

140 Dx Wraith(This thing is so flippy it's not even funny. If extreme down wind, this thing is awesome. Any other time, it rolls no matter what. Also good for one hole that I must really bend a throw L to R around a line of trees, and I cannot throw forehand)

Collecting dust:

Ch. Archon
Opto Flow
Ch. and Pro Beasts


Not so high speed:

150 Dx Archangel(Downwind and shorter L to R shots too long for Meteor)
163 DX Archangel(Not as flippy and just flat out long. Could probably use this as my only driver, but that would be no fun)


Future purchase(s): Star Tern whenever I can find one. Maybe a D4. Maybe an X Nuke.

[JR]

Wow i've beaten in one Pro Destro and it flips a lot still having Wraith like fade so absolutely miles away from the straightest or straightest finishing disc i've seen. You most have trashed that Destro. How long did it take i mean it could be a while before you could replace it if you beat another one as much. Which could be hard to do with all the other drivers.

I was not joking about doing one disc rounds with all of those discs because it illuminates the strengths and weaknesses of different classes of discs but also each individual disc too.

D4 bombs.

[aerohusker]

i know this thread has gone off in a different direction, but its great to talk with other G.master newbs.

My problem now is i've discovered that the reason leopards, saints, etc. and other understable disc flip, is not because of my power, but my technique is based on compensating (throwing with slight annie) for slightly overstable discs that i've learn to throw. I believe your throw shouldn't differ any for any type of disc or do people drop their shoulder a little for more understable to launch with more hyser? i'm kinda lost here?

[Mark Ellis]

i know this thread has gone off in a different direction, but its great to talk with other G.master newbs.

My problem now is i've discovered that the reason leopards, saints, etc. and other understable disc flip, is not because of my power, but my technique is based on compensating (throwing with slight annie) for slightly overstable discs that i've learn to throw. I believe your throw shouldn't differ any for any type of disc or do people drop their shoulder a little for more understable to launch with more hyser? i'm kinda lost here?

Golf is all about constant adjustment of your throwing form, motion and power for individual shots. It's not like making a free throw in basketball where every shot is the same. The throwing surface, the winds, distances, lines and angles are always different for every shot. So one robotic form which never changes is not the answer. But one robotic form which is flat and straight is a good starting point from which slight changes can produce results.

Discs flip due to a combination of factors: your angle of release, degree of flutter, stability of your disc, amount of power you generate and winds. The more experience you gain in playing the more you can make the proper adjustments so your discs flip when YOU WANT THEM TO.

A fast way to improve how well you control lines (making a disc go where you want it to) is to find discs which are dead stable (straight flying) for you and to learn the throw them flat and straight. The better you can make a disc fly straight the easier it is to make it bend right or left. And the straighter you can throw a disc the more distance it goes forward.

The idea that you develop one basic form (smooth, balanced, flat with full follow through, bending your knees enough to engage the power of your legs and core) then vary slightly from this to shape lines is a good one. So yes, there is a basic form which combined with a dead stable disc will allow you to throw straight shots. Straight shots have the best chance to start in the fairway and end up in the fairway. Obviously some fairways are shaped like a fish hook and require shots which bend severely but the single most valuable drive to have at your command is a straight line down the middle.

A disc which is too understable or too overstable (for YOU, because discs fly differently for different people based on their form and power) can still be manipulated to fly basically straight but it requires more skill and precision to do so. So keep looking for DEAD STABLE discs. The best way to test a disc is to throw it flat and straight at your normal driving power and watch what it does. When you find one which is dead stable it is a great moment. Now you too can throw a frozen rope. Because I have spent years searching and practicing I have dead stable putters, mids and drivers in my bag.

A disc which is slightly understable at your normal full power will fly dead stable if you dial back power enough, so learn your discs. A disc which is dead stable at full power will be slightly overstable when you dial back power. A disc which is dead stable at 3/4's power will be slightly understable at full power.

Making a disc turn left or right takes less variance from flat than most newbies realize. SLIGHT changes from flat combined with the proper disc can make a disc hyzer or anhyzer.

[Mark Ellis]

Greetings old guys. This has been a far ranging topic.

HEALTH and INJURY
Use it or lose it. We all know this and disc golf is a great life long sport. But unfortunately if you use it you will injure it (eventually). So understanding your own body, what it can tolerate and how to recover from injury is important. In my 40's I had to start stretching. In my 50's I had to start cross training. In my late 50's I had to stop playing every day. Now I am figuring out how to recover from exertion and injury.

My last two injuries (strained rotator cuff in left shoulder-thank goodness it was the left shoulder as I'm right handed- and strained IT Band in right knee) popped out of nowhere. I just woke up one morning and seemingly without cause I had a new pain which refused to go away. I have a sports doctor, personal trainer, chiropractor and massage therapist which combined with ice and duct tape keep me plodding along and occasionally taking the money from these young kids who throw twice as far as I do.

Just because an injury (recent or chronic) limits one skill or shot is no reason to sit on the sidelines. If you plan to play so long as you can walk then you have plenty of time to work on what you can still use. If you blow out your right arm then work on your left arm. If you can't throw backhand then develop a forehand. If you can't throw hard then learn rollers or practice putting. 100 feet and in will always be the most important part of the game and it doesn't take much strength or mobility to practice these shots.

COMPETING AGAINST THE YOUNG PUNKS

First off, compete! Don't shy away from it. If you only play against a small group of fellow geezers you are limiting your own potential. Right now put your sights on playing the World Championships every year (there are separate ones for Amateurs and Professionals and each has age divisions with breaks at 40+, 50+, 60+, 70+ and 75+) . Make it a goal. Make it a priority. Make it a vacation. It gives you something to strive for, to train for. There are a lot of old guys out there who are doing what you are doing and until you go to Worlds you will never meet them and never know what it takes to get to their level and beyond. Oh, and because of the process it is easy for old guys to qualify to play Worlds. Join the PDGA and play in a few sanctioned tournaments and you can get in.

We are more comfortable hanging out with other old guys. So what. Break out of that comfort zone. Play leagues and tournaments and you will meet and become friends with the kids. These punk kids will push you to new levels. Here is a small secret: the game is more fun the better you play. Some of the kids are surprisingly tolerable. Once you can compete with the kids it will be easier to beat up your old friends. Do it as a favor to them.

In order to compete against the kids you will need to do two things: have better control than they do and maximize your distance. Even if you have great natural power you ain't gonna win driving distance competitions against the Open division. And you ain't gonna have more power a decade from now. So you must learn how to maximize the power you do have.

Part of power is a function of good form, engaging your legs and core into the drive. Part of it is good equipment. Wide rimmed discs fly faster and farther. Yes, wide rimmed discs are harder to control but you can gain control with practice and you NEED that advantage. I carry 7 Nukes in my bag in different degrees of stability. It took me a year of practicing with Nukes before I used them in tournaments. Now they are my primary driver.

In tournaments you may want to enter the old guy divisions. The rest of the time take on everybody.