Help a newbie - converted Ultimate player

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Help a newbie - converted Ultimate player

Postby drinkysr » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:30 pm

So Ultimate has taken it's toll on my body and I have to basically give it up - alas.

I decided to give disc golf a whirl. So I bought 3 discs - a stingray, a polecat and a valkyrie.

Now, in Ultimate my throws are quite strong. I can throw an UltraStar about 75 yards - further with favorable wind.

I had no illusions about gof discs since I have tried to throw a couple before and found them finicky. I went out to the park an commenced testing.

Results - Polecat - about 70 yards - pretty straight
Stingray: about 75 yards - pretty straight
Valk - about 75 not at all straight (veers hard left at release)

Isn't a driver supposed to go farther??
Based on reading - I'm probably releasing low with the nose up.

I'll work on that.

Any other suggestions out the in disc world?
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Postby Discoman » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:40 pm

Read all of the instructional articles, on driving and putting and grips especially. You are probably very comfortable wth throwing a certain way. This may be difficlult to relearn, but the best time is now before you develop more habits. Throwing at the field is great, bt learing the short game based on where your drives actually take you on a couurse is valuable too. Even the parts of the articles that don't make sense yet are valuable, it all comes in layers. Have fun most importantly!
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:47 pm

I have no experience with the polecat, but I believe it is considered a midrange.

As far as your stingray, it should have turned right if thrown with power. So something is up there. Still 225 yards is not bad.

The valkerie should be straight to right turn. If thrown hard, they would turn over for me.

I'm really taken back by the fact that you got 225 feet out of a stingray without a right turn. Height is one question I would have. The other is grip. Are you using a power grip?

Hope this helps. By the way, why those discs? I do believe the stingray is a good beginner disc. And most beginners do throw it straight.
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Postby krusen » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:50 pm

I'm pretty sure the polecat is a putter.

Like Disco said...read all the articles here. Practice and re-read the articles, and practice some more. I guessing grip may be a big difference from ultimate to golf. Also keep the disc very close to your chest as you pull it through.

Don't get discouraged. 225 isn't bad for just starting out. I played for years and probably never threw over 280 until I discovered this site.
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Postby zealot » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:38 pm

the stingray is brand new, so its not worn that much. he might have released it with a bit of hyzer.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:56 pm

the polecat is a very slow putter (similar to a birdie, rattler or puttr)

I would reccomend trying a whitler, they are very conductive to a ultimate style of throwing.

The biggest hurdle you will have to overcome is nose angles. Ultimate discs fly better flat or nose up. any disc golf driver you find will fly better flat or nose down. Read all the threads on nose angles (there are quite a few), the articles are very helpful also.

you may also want to try a mid weight condor also. Or even bring your ultrastar out on the course (they are pdga legal)
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Postby drinkysr » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:51 pm

Thanks for all the advice.

I picked the discs up at a shop after browsing reviews of what would make good beginner discs. I could not find the recommended driver so I went with what was there - they still reek of insence from the head shop where I found them.

I think the nose angle thing is going to take some getting used to - an Ultrastar goes straight into the ground if you do that.

Also, an arm motion close to the chest is not at all like Ultimate, where you want the swing as far away from your body as possible since it keeps you from getting point blocked by a defender.
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Postby garublador » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:39 am

It will take some getting used to, but don't forget what you learned in Ultimate. A common strategy for dealing with wind in disc golf is to rely heavily on a specific disc, but what you learned about how the wind affects your disc in Ultimate will apply and be very useful in disc golf as well.

There will be a range from about 200' in that you'll be very comfortable with and you may not need that many adjustments. Just remember that when you're laying up, you aren't aiming for the basket, you're aiming to land under the basket. That may help you avoid many, many blow by's when approaching the basket.

It sounds like you have a pretty smooth throw so far. If a Valk is diving hard left on a 75 yard throw then you aren't torquing it over. Getting a Polecat out that far without it turning over is impressive, too.
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Postby drinkysr » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:28 am

When you say "torquing it over" or "turning it over" do you mean the right-to-left turn (for rhbh) that occurs during the high-speed flight of the disc?

I went back out again yesterday, and by focusing on a close-to-the body swing and using a two-finger grip, I saw some improvement in the flight line - turning right a bit after release, then fading left. Not a whole lot of distance improvement - but it is hitting the gound going fairly fast, so I think the potential is there.

I think i will pick up a Sidewinder to allow me to release with a bit of hyzer (what Ultimate players call "inside out") - which fits my throwing style a bit better.
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Postby garublador » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:40 am

drinkysr wrote:When you say "torquing it over" or "turning it over" do you mean the right-to-left turn (for rhbh) that occurs during the high-speed flight of the disc?


Turning over is when the disc turns right for a rhbh player during the high speed portion of the flight. Normally, people will say they "turned over" a disc if it goes way to the right. The disc drifting of to the right a few feet is fairly normal.

Torqueing over a disc means you turned it over because your throw wasn't smooth enough. Many times you'll get flutter, too. Many times, people turn over discs at slower speeds because of torque, but mistakenly think it's because of how fast they are throwing it (speed will cause a disc to turn over as well.)

Many people (especally new players) have this "off axis torque" in their throw and aren't able to throw understable discs like a Stingray or really slow discs like a Polecat out that far in a straight line. In short, what I meant by my last paragraph was that being able to do that is good.
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Some results

Postby drinkysr » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:40 am

Some better results yesterday -

By adjusting grip (2 fingers under the rim and pushing up toward the thumb pad) and concentrating on a nose-down release, I did see some improvements.

The Valk is still hard for me to get to turn right initially. I resorted to a little anhyzer to get that - but the flight was generally more predictable than last time - and marginally farther.

The Stingray, OTOH, was doing great. Nice graceful S-curve with good hang-time and reliably more distance than the Polecat, and only a little less than the Valk.

Am thinking about picking up a disc with similar LSS and HSS to the Stingray, with more speed and a mid-range power requirement. Looks like Sidewinder, Roadrunner, or Archangel.
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Re: Some results

Postby garublador » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:47 am

drinkysr wrote:Am thinking about picking up a disc with similar LSS and HSS to the Stingray, with more speed and a mid-range power requirement. Looks like Sidewinder, Roadrunner, or Archangel.


Personally, I'd recommend somthing like an XL, Ace, Cheetah or Leopard. The discs you listed are notoriously unpredictable for anything but deliberate anhyzers, though some disagree. There's actually a really good article regarding disc selection on this site that's worth reading if you haven't already.
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Postby Tanner » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:01 pm

yeah, the roadrunner you need a TON of snap...like, 5 times what you need for a 175g ultrastar....


God I love ultimate, haha. I'd really suggest the leopard for you. Good first driver, or a t-bird.
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Postby drinkysr » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:33 am

I picked up a Leopard and went out to play at Brandywine Creek state park in DE.

I had some control problems with the Leopard at first, but it is coming together. Some highlights fom the round.

Near ace on the second hole with the Leopard - a straight-ahead 240ft hole with a tree or 2 infront and just to the left of the basket. The drive traced a graceful S-curve and I could tell it had a chance before it began its fade and wound up under the basket.

The 3rd hole is downhill with the basket up on a ledge atop an 8 foot retaining wall - to get there you walk down the hill then up a flight of stairs which ends near a huge tree. My drive (predictably) left me on the lower level. I bring out the Ultra-star and slice a hammer over the stairs, around the tree and skidding to within 10 feet (nice)

Fourth hole - way downhill, over brandywine creek, around a few trees to the basket. Drive is WAYY right (torqued it) into some tall trees. I hear it cut lumber then SPLASH. I find it just in the water, bring out the Ultrastar again and throw a forehand over one side of the bridge, striking the other and landing in the path. Attempting to retrieve the wet disc, I slip on wet rocks and fall in, just barely saving myself from a Nestea plunge - I dip my ass defiantly in Brandywine Creek.

Ninth hole - about 350 feet straight. Basket is between 2 trees with a 5 foot stone wall about 10 feet in front of it. Drive take me to about 40 feet away from the wall (distances are approximate). I bring out the Ultrastar again and a low forehand goes BONK into the wall. Mulligan (I was the only one on the course) - same throw only higher buzzes the top of the wall, bounces off the big tree on the left and CHING - hits the chains!! I sprint to the wall and find - it fell out.

Near par round but plent to keep me coming back.
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Postby adamschneider » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:06 pm

It's probably good that you're starting out with understable discs like Stingrays and Leopards, because by disc golf standards, Ultimate discs are crazy understable. If you tried to start out with an overstable "distance driver," it'd drive you nuts...

I was really frustrated when I first started playing DG because I had a driver that was completely wrong for me. Once I got a 150g Leopard, it started being a lot more fun. (And I still use that old Leopard to get out of horrible lies behind trees.)
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