how to properly measure distance on hole

Disc Golf Talk

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

how to properly measure distance on hole

Postby some call me...tim? » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:23 pm

OK, so maybe this is a rudimentary question, but I still need to ask it. How is distance measured on holes? I mean, if it's a flat open field from point A to point B, I get that. I'm wondering about holes where there isn't a straight path to the pin and/or there's elevation involved. Is it still just measured in a straight line from the tee-pad to the basket? Or does the measurement follow the "recommended route" of the disc? And does elevation affect the numbers at all? Like I say, it might be a dumb question, but I don't have the answer! :roll:
some call me...tim?
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:01 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:42 pm

all of the above.
Screw how tee signs are marked.

If its too far to see and you dont feel like running way up there to see the basket, throw where you think it is :roll:
They are usually mesured the ideal path or A to B.

As far as elevation it depends on wether they used gps, a range finder or a wheel to measure the distance. gps would give a lateral distacne, a range finder would tell you A to B and a wheel would mesure every dip and hill between you and the pin.
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
Thatdirtykid
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3677
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Longmont Co
Favorite Disc: z pred

Postby some call me...tim? » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:59 pm

hahaha, yeah, I don't doubt that any and all methods have been used to measure holes, I'm wondering what the true "proper" way would be though. Hypothetically speaking, say I was plotting out a course for Worlds or something, where they'd want the measurements to be as accurate as possible, what would be the method used? Is there like a gold standard for how holes are measured?
some call me...tim?
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:01 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Postby presidio hills » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:18 pm

in my opinion people should measure from the front center of the tee pad, in a straight line to the top of the tray (or something like that). if the realistic route is way off to the side and then cutting back to the other side and you're actually forced the throw 450' when the basket is 200' away... just say it's 200' and let people figure it out. maybe even list both distances with lines showing the path for both (if the hole was that rediculous, this would be nice to show on the sign).
presidio hills
Fairway Surgeon
 
Posts: 625
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:04 pm
Location: san francisco

Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:58 pm

I dont believe theres a standard, but I know for worlds, instead they will have detailed maps of each hole and distances to a point in the fairway and then another measuement from that point to the basket.

read this discussion if you want another in consistant discussion http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=607633&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post608359
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
Thatdirtykid
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3677
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Longmont Co
Favorite Disc: z pred

Postby Rooster » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:38 am

personally i think it should be measured as the disc flies on the intended route for the hole.
Rooster
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 528
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 7:03 am
Location: 'Burbs of tha D

Postby Thatdirtykid » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:01 am

I think point to point makes the most sense if it is supposed to be an aide in figureing distance. If the suggested route is a knife hyzer that is a 400' line, but the basket could accually only be 250' away. What if you want to risk the line through the trees, or thumber over them? If you know how far the pin is, its easier to figure wether you can reach it on any specific line.
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
Thatdirtykid
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3677
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Longmont Co
Favorite Disc: z pred

Postby garublador » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:10 am

IMO, as long as it's shown how the distance was measured, it's not a big deal how it's done, as long as it's accurate. Sometimes some short, rolling hills can really mess up a distance measurement if you use a wheel of some type.
garublador
Disc Whore
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:37 am
Location: Urbandale, IA

Postby Dogma » Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:48 am

gps would give a lateral distacne

Actually, most people don't realize it but GPS is a little more complicated than that. The maximum location finding accuracy of a consumer GPS unit is within about 10 feet. Since you have to measure two points to get the distance between them, the maximum accuracy of any GPS-measured distance is around 20 feet of error. In addition, reception is rarely optimal so good units also display EPE (estimated position error) to tell you roughly how much worse than optimally the unit is receiving signals. Under general use, you can expect accuracy within about 30 feet when measuring a given point, which means +/-60 feet of error for a measured distance.

Also, most GPS units do measure elevation. My experience has been that they are very slow to measure it, and it is usually less accurate than a properly calibrated barometric pressure based unit. I have an inexpensive pressure-type elevation sensor, and it is accurate measuring change within about 20 feet. I also have both a Garmin and a Magellan GPS, and their elevation measurements tend to fluctuate by one or two hundred feet, which makes them useless for measuring elevation change on something as small as a disc golf hole.

There are very expensive GPS systems used for land surveying and such that are much more exact than what I described, but they are not commonly available or affordable. I think if I were measuring a course and wanted maximum accuracy I would use a good range finder and a pressure-based altimeter.
Dogma
2009 DGR Donator
User avatar
 
Posts: 1250
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:27 pm

Postby Thatdirtykid » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:32 am

But do they configure elevation into distances? (that and my experience w/ gps is the elevation numbers are even more unreliable than distances)
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
Thatdirtykid
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3677
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Longmont Co
Favorite Disc: z pred

Postby Dogma » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:00 am

Most GPS units can be operated in 2D mode (lat/long only) or 3D mode (lat/long/elev). I'm not positive, but I think that in 2D mode elevation is not factored into the measurement, but in 3D mode it is (albeit unreliably). You're right about GPS elevation being unreliable. For details on why, this website is pretty good: http://www.unavco.org/edu_outreach/tuto ... ation.html Some nicer units offer pressure-based elevation sensors in addition to GPS elevation readings, but even then the distances involved in most disc golf holes are just too short for GPS to be considered anything more than an approximation.
Dogma
2009 DGR Donator
User avatar
 
Posts: 1250
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:27 pm

measuring distance

Postby Toney » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:50 pm

The problem with measuring distance by measuring the curvature of the hole is that I don't practice that way. I practice on a soccer field, throwing all kinds of hyzers and curves. Only by having the constant value of the point to point distance can I figure out how well and how accurately I'm throwing all the curves.

That having been said, you also have to learn to judge hole length with your eyeballs. The distance posted on signs are mostly stupid. In fact, some of the fun of playing is seeing how well you are guessing.
Toney
Noob
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:19 pm


Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest