Peter pleads, Ziggy launches & JR lectures on the Brits

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Re: Peter's 7/8ths drama

Postby Star Shark » Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:26 pm

Better question - What percentage of ACTIVE PDGA members are in each division.
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Re: Peter's 7/8ths drama

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:11 pm

Percentages haven't changed much since the end of 2008:
http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/Pla ... earEnd.pdf
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Re: Peter's 7/8ths drama

Postby JR » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:32 am

Wouldn't the possible split in the organizations effectively slash the income of open division and possibly even killing the tour because nobody could live off of the winnings? Considering how few make profit and how little it is for most of those that even do now that there is funds being diverted from ams and older players to open. Is it accurate to say that disc golfers play with each others money? And if other division left would it kill the open and possibly whole disc golf as a sport? This comes from the assumption that open div. is needed to bring in sponsors to grow and develop the sport. A split player base will probably make it harder to gain sponsors thus setting back if not kill the sport or growth of it.
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Re: Peter's pitch

Postby victorb » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:36 pm

Easiest hard answer to this problem:

Someone start up the ADGA (Amateur Disc Golf Association) and leave the open Pros to the PDGA.

The more I'm around the sport, the less I like what the PDGA does, especially to clubs that organize/run tournaments. They get to put their name on the event, and charge a fee to the clubs for people that aren't pdga members to play - but what do they do to organize it that could possibly dictate these fees and free sponsorship? Nothing, other than put it as a date on their schedule on the website.
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Re: Peter's pitch

Postby veganray » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:46 pm

PDGA-sanctioned events are provided liability insurance by the PDGA, a (maybe the) non-trivial benefit of sanctioning, unless you are one of those deluded souls that believe that the mathematically-bankrupt ratings system is worth more than teats on a bull.
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Re: Peter's pitch

Postby Frank Delicious » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:57 pm

Why does this thread keep name changing?
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Re: Peter's pitch

Postby some call me...tim? » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:58 pm

What's so bad about the ratings system? It might not be perfect, but I haven't seen a better alternative.
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Re: Peter's pitch

Postby victorb » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:15 pm

veganray wrote:PDGA-sanctioned events are provided liability insurance by the PDGA, a (maybe the) non-trivial benefit of sanctioning, unless you are one of those deluded souls that believe that the mathematically-bankrupt ratings system is worth more than teats on a bull.


I doubt insurance provided by a group that isn't actually running the tournament - let alone have an ambassador/official/employee there - could possibly be held accountable in a court of law. The clubs run the tournaments (except in rare cases) and are the ones that would be held liable, especially here since the parks are reserved under the club organization's name.

The ratings system isn't that bad.

I still think someone should start the ADGA.
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Re: Peter's pitch

Postby Timko » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:13 pm

The PDGA provides insurance to every participant in a sanctioned event.
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Re: Peter's pitch

Postby krazybronco » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:38 pm

I can attest to the insurance thing a guy in my group a couple of years ago hit a car and left a pretty large dent in a minivan and i asked the TD later what happend and also Brian what happpened (my dad is does body work and i help alot) and they both said that the car was fixed and the owner was happy so there is one instance when having the insurance did help the TD and also the player (who was a rec player)
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Re: Peter's pitch

Postby JHBlader86 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:34 am

As much as I'd like to see an ADGA, I think we first need to work our way from the ground up and form an Amateur Committee within the PDGA that focuses on Ams needs by helping to create either regional Amateur Tours, or helping to promote Amateur only events, and attracting sponsors for Am only events. It would be pretty sweet though to see different regions with an amateur tour to help promote the sport alongside the pros National Tour.
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Re: Peter's pitch

Postby Working Stiff » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:28 am

Peter is sort of a quack, so it makes me sad that I can see what he is saying. The PDGA has always been a organization based more on funneling the money of bad players into the pockets of top players as opposed to promoting the sport, and the pieces are in place for the Open players to make a push for a bigger slice of the pie.

I'm not really worried about it. I think the Open players are overestimating the size of the pie, and many of the moves they might make would drive players away from the PDGA and make the pie even smaller.

That being said, the PDGA isn't driving anything. The local clubs are the organizations that are attracting new players, and a higher % of them simply won't join the PDGA. Local clubs will get stronger, the PDGA will get weaker. That really doesn't scare me. Back in the day around 50% of the St. Louis Club belonged to the PDGA. That number is more like 20% now even with hosting an A tier that forces you to be a member to participate in. To me as the sport grows the PDGA becomes less relevant. If the PDGA wants to do things to speed up a process that is already happening, more power to them.
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Re: Peter's pitch

Postby Timko » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:48 pm

Working Stiff wrote:That being said, the PDGA isn't driving anything. The local clubs are the organizations that are attracting new players, and a higher % of them simply won't join the PDGA. Local clubs will get stronger, the PDGA will get weaker. That really doesn't scare me. Back in the day around 50% of the St. Louis Club belonged to the PDGA. That number is more like 20% now even with hosting an A tier that forces you to be a member to participate in. To me as the sport grows the PDGA becomes less relevant. If the PDGA wants to do things to speed up a process that is already happening, more power to them.


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Re: Peter's pitch

Postby JR » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:04 am

JHBlader86 wrote:As much as I'd like to see an ADGA, I think we first need to work our way from the ground up and form an Amateur Committee within the PDGA that focuses on Ams needs by helping to create either regional Amateur Tours, or helping to promote Amateur only events, and attracting sponsors for Am only events. It would be pretty sweet though to see different regions with an amateur tour to help promote the sport alongside the pros National Tour.


If a split is some day deemed to be necessary a committee may be a good step if it is made up of the people that will form/run the ADGA initially so that they get experience. I'm not sure if the PDGA wants them to gain contacts to prospective sponsors though.
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Re: Peter's pitch

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:39 am

The PDGA has had an Amateur Committee off and on (currenty off) for around 18 years. But it had little activity when it had members and no one to head it up for most of the time. Most of the functions are covered by the Competition Committee which spends more time on Amateur and overall competition issues than Pro specific. There's a small NT Committee strictly about pro tour issues. The Womens Committee has had similar problems over the years with no one to head it up. The Senior Committee is new and has Don Dillon as a real go-getter heading it up.
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