both of the hawks are great. I've only got to play them twice. black has a good mix of everything. long, short, open, tight, straight, and doglegged. there are also 3 holes that play over and around 2 ponds. it will test most of the shots in you bag, if not all of them. red has a lot more open holes. the front 9 is a great warm up. lots of roc and aviar shots, or take the huge spike shots for fun. the back is a little more technical with 2 almost 900 footers, both with ob running the whole length. the old courses have been upgraded and the new ones are killer. if anyone comes this way, give me a pm and i'll try to make it up there. I'm only a little more than a hour away from t town.