Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

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Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby Dag » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:17 pm

Title pretty much says it. I enjoyed using the SSAs, divided by number of holes in a given layout, to derive an objective indicator of degree of challenge to compare with my subjective one. I recently tried to access SSA information for some tournaments I played earlier this year but the PDGA FAQ and all the search resources kept directing me to non-existent pages. I asked David Gentry, PDGA's IT person, via e-mail what had become of the data and received a curt reply stating that the data had been removed from the website and that the PDGA would be reviewing their data sharing policies.

Anyone know anything more on the reasoning here?
...there was a time when you were taught to find the best disc for you, not the best disc for your situation on the course, which is how they are sold now. IMO, the flight charts are basically there to point out all the stuff you dont have in your bag and why you suck.

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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:24 pm

Other enterprises were scraping the PDGA database for their own business ventures. The Board voted in June to remove the main SSA database. SSAs are going to be indirectly available to provide ratings via new initiatives like the iOS app and other formats to follow. You can still figure out SSAs individually simply by looking at the score closest to 1000 rating in events.
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby Apothecary » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:37 pm

what was the pdga losing by listing that info? seems to me that would be like GGGT scraping the flight chart because other sites reference it.
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby Smyith » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:28 pm

i think we've all learned that the pDGA heads are all like little children. "its mine, i dont wanna share"
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby curt » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:36 am

I am very disappointed in that decision. The only people are getting hurt by the board removing that information is the players. A course's SSA is a valuable tool for players, and it is sad to see it disappear. I find it even more disappointing that information that ought to be a benefit of membership, like player rating information, is hidden behind another fee. (In the iOS app).
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:15 pm

Heaven forbid that SOME things in this sport actually have a reaonable fee attached. No one seems to bat an eye at paying $10-$15-$20 for a gob of plastic or twice that much for golf bags. But if it's a service that's involved like running leagues or events or doing course work then NOOO, gotta have people do that free...
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby Wyno » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:53 pm

That's really bad rhetoric Chuck, coming from you I had expected better...

Personally I don't give a rats ass about ssa, but on priciple taking away a service to your members ought to have a better rationale than "someone else might be making money from this and we're not".
So unless you come up with a policy to explain this ("The PDGA shall endavor to charge a fee for all services" :P ) or there's some pragmatic reason that has not yet been revealed, this just looks like a bad decision.
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:26 pm

I'm sorry if my answer isn't to your liking but I don't really care. I've dedicated the last 22 years of my life to doing and creating services, not selling goods, that make the life of disc golfers better doing close to 10,000 of those hours without compensation partly in the hopes that I was helping to not only build something special with this sport but that eventually those efforts would result in some of those services being useful enough that I could scrape out a living off of those efforts.

The ratings system is fortunately one of those efforts. So excuse me if I'm ticked off with people whining about something that others might be ripping off that has value to help pay some of my bills as a contractor to the PDGA (no job security) and something of value to the PDGA members overall. The information people are complaining about is still there. How to do ratings is still there and SSAs can still be obtained. I even answer emails and posts on how to do it. There are people smarter than me that could have developed or reverse engineered the system after 10 years. The information just isn't being served up on a silver platter en masse for the moment while the Board ponders overall data issues. It doesn't mean the hidden SSA decision stands forever.

There. That rant has built up for a while. Sorry posters on this thread see my once-in-a-blue-moon rants after being nice unofficial PDGA poster child most of the time.
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby curt » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:55 pm

First of all, Chuck thank you for all the work you've done on the rating system throughout the years. I know you get a lot of criticism about it and we Often forget how much work has gone into it. Thank you for your explanation of your feelings. It is easy to underestimate how much people value their work from the outside. Let me rephrase my previous post. I think that the entire ratings system is what makes pdga membership valuable. Losing easy access to SSA days will devalue the system. If you can find a way to make the information easily available while still protecting your product that would be great.



I'd also like to clarify that I am really excited about the PDGA app and totally think it will be worth it.
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby Wyno » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:37 pm

Much better rant containing arguments, thanks Chuck :-) And I'm also aware of the awesome job you are doing, which I'm grateful for.

I don't mind you or the PDGA making a buck, but I still don't see the decision. Why take it down while the PDGA is pondering (a question they should have pondered years ago)? But again, I don't have a problem with the PDGA making this available just to members, letting businesses pay for using it, or whatever might come out of this. I certainly don't mind you getting paid, not many people understand the quality and quantity of work put into the rating system, IMHO.

One point though: If others are using the data that's not a problem in itself but a good thing - unless they do so in competition with or to detriment to the PDGA. It should be possible to prevent this from happening through other means than hiding the information, and you'll always have a competitive advantage in your knowledge of this information.
Last edited by Wyno on Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby Torg » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:20 am

So are.we mainly talking about competeing scoring apps?
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby NOHalffastpull » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:21 pm

Hats off everyone, moment of silence.
Chuck is being FRANK, w/ the "Blue Moon" rant.
I appreciate and applaud your dedication.
Scraping out a living on our beloved hobby is
noble, laughable. absurd, well intentioned, ...
Making a living off of disc golf?
Might as well just name yourself the captain of the
Disc Golf Krewe of Don Quixote ,

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steve timm




Chuck Kennedy wrote:I'm sorry if my answer isn't to your liking but I don't really care. I've dedicated the last 22 years of my life to doing and creating services, not selling goods, that make the life of disc golfers better doing close to 10,000 of those hours without compensation partly in the hopes that I was helping to not only build something special with this sport but that eventually those efforts would result in some of those services being useful enough that I could scrape out a living off of those efforts.

The ratings system is fortunately one of those efforts. So excuse me if I'm ticked off with people whining about something that others might be ripping off that has value to help pay some of my bills as a contractor to the PDGA (no job security) and something of value to the PDGA members overall. The information people are complaining about is still there. How to do ratings is still there and SSAs can still be obtained. I even answer emails and posts on how to do it. There are people smarter than me that could have developed or reverse engineered the system after 10 years. The information just isn't being served up on a silver platter en masse for the moment while the Board ponders overall data issues. It doesn't mean the hidden SSA decision stands forever.

There. That rant has built up for a while. Sorry posters on this thread see my once-in-a-blue-moon rants after being nice unofficial PDGA poster child most of the time.
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby mshelton » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:08 am

Wow, getting butt-hurt over someone mining your data....when ever this happened to myself or my friends that ran projects we always considered it a good, the few times it happened we found out what they were doing with it, checked out their stuff, exchanged mutual suggestions and had an overall positive and constructive encounter.

But you know in this case I can understand, the extrapolation of this data would go to an app to help the sport as a whole and maybe provide a more enjoyable experience for some, f#$k that man, it's your ball and your going home.

Good move sport, well played.
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:18 am

The data's still available. It's just not served up on a silver platter.
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Re: Course SSAs removed from PDGA website

Postby veganray » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:34 am

PDGA: Making it more & more difficult to get what you pay for since 1982.
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