"NAGS" Zone

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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby chunk » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:19 am

Roc Lover wrote:I am also not a fan of par 2's or larger diameter putters. If i had to choose, par 2's would be my solution since they dont actually change anything, most birdies doesnt win, most bogeys doesnt lose, fewest strokes wins regardless of what you call them.

^^^ this. i think we as disc golfers get too wrapped up on what is par.

geat thread.
what would willie do?
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Fritz » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:10 am

uNicedmeMan wrote:
Fritz wrote:I have used Superclass discs to putt with before, the Snap Whitler and liked it. But man was it tough to make longer putts.


Not a superclass disc, just sayin' (damn shame too).


I thought it got it's classification? Bummer.
I've thrown the other ones too Zephyr, Ultra-star, Sky-styler (we gave away club stamped sky-stylers the one year in hopes people would be open to playing a superclass tourney but it never happened :(
I just liked the Whitler.
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Fritz » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:19 am

chunk wrote:
Roc Lover wrote:I am also not a fan of par 2's or larger diameter putters. If i had to choose, par 2's would be my solution since they dont actually change anything, most birdies doesnt win, most bogeys doesnt lose, fewest strokes wins regardless of what you call them.

^^^ this. i think we as disc golfers get too wrapped up on what is par.

geat thread.


True that. Well spoken Roc.
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Kscustom » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:31 am

I try to get in 2 separate hours a day of putting. And throw 20-30 drives. I only play a couple rounds a week if that. My local course has homemade baskets which are not my favorite. So I work mostly from home. I played 36 tournaments in 2011 in KS, CO, NE, OK, and MO. I plan to play adv this year, my rating is not so good and I do make mistakes, but playing up makes you better for sure. The first time I ever touched a disc was mothers day 2010. So this spring will be 2 years. I am passionate about disc golf and it brings peace to my life. I love to see good discussion and had throw it in there that yes I do mean close to a 1000 hours of practice but only 2 hours a day putting I'll have to try and get in the extra 45 minutes this year! Thanks for the math help.
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby jubuttib » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:16 am

Fritz wrote:
chunk wrote:
Roc Lover wrote:I am also not a fan of par 2's or larger diameter putters. If i had to choose, par 2's would be my solution since they dont actually change anything, most birdies doesnt win, most bogeys doesnt lose, fewest strokes wins regardless of what you call them.

^^^ this. i think we as disc golfers get too wrapped up on what is par.

geat thread.
True that. Well spoken Roc.
A point which has been brought up before in this thread, but a good point none the less.
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Pwingles » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:22 am

Would it be easier to just make the holes harder for majors and open/pro divisions if you want to lower the scores so they dont look like a handful of players arent a huge leap of talent ahead of the other divisions at a glance? Or change par relative to the skill level of the division, basically like a divisional handicap? Pro par54, am1 par 60 etc etc, changes nohing stroke wise, looks better on paper fo the people that were worried about whether or not ron converse crushed them by around 30 strokes in a 2 dayer last year ( wasnt me i swear)
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:40 am

If you can't change the holes, changing the par doesn't work if you also want to avoid par 2s.
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Pwingles » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:49 am

Chuck Kennedy wrote:If you can't change the holes, changing the par doesn't work if you also want to avoid par 2s.

Pros use diff tees? Make the hole harder to start with, then have divisional tees, white, blue red etc
Im still having trouble understanding how par 2 holes help or hurt anyone specifically? Wouldnt that change affect everyone and thus cancel out? Unless youre talking about pro only par 2's? Either way all a pro par 2 hole accomplishes is the pro scores look more like the division below it or like the course is tougher, which is an illusion if you dont change the holes right? How much of these proposed changes are for image purposes to the general public or more casual crowd?
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Pwingles » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:56 am

Chuck Kennedy wrote:If you can't change the holes, changing the par doesn't work if you also want to avoid par 2s.

Also, i realize the pdga has a chart/formula thing factoring distance and density of trees and such to come to a number to use for what par should be. Whats to stop someone from calling something a different par? Would it really confuse people that much to have par/pro par and have it be a different number? This seems to be the true root of this discussion, change that chart, or make a more updated or specific one or just make a "gold level" one, would that work?
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:39 pm

Fundamentally, you can't make well designed, relatively open gold level holes tough enough to match par without changing the putting ratio that's already been discussed. Or, you can set par on several of our current "fake" par 3s to par 2s. Even if you stretch out a relatively open hole so gold level players average 2.7 with 30% 2s and 70% 3s so it's not a fake par 3, the Super Gold level top players will average 2.4-2.5 on those holes or 3.4-3.5 on equivalent par 4s. Cumulatively, top players shoot 7-9 down even on gold courses like this that are relatively open and those playing well that event can shoot even better.

It's a different story in the woods and we'll see that impact to some extent at Charlotte Worlds later this year which will have a high percentage of wooded holes where scores average closer to listed par and still have good scoring spread.
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Pwingles » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:06 pm

Im not sure why we are using open holes and courses as the example, to me it would be as simple as, do whatever you need to do to make the hole that much more challenging regardless of openness. Use banners for triple mandos, have tighter fairways or more Ob? If youre worried (not you personally) about holes playing as essentially 3.5 par then make the hole play differently so that half stroke of difficulty is applied to the higher skilled players.
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:11 pm

Sorry I can't get through to you. It's just not that simple. We've already taken much of this thread and there are other threads to fully explain the problem.
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Pwingles » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:21 pm

Sorry im too slow for you i guess. Just seems like over complication for overcomplications sake to me.

Fwiw, in my head my posts were more like suggestions looking for feedback and improvement on those and not like " chuck and the pdga cant do shit correctly like fix these easily fixable problems" just sayin
Last edited by Pwingles on Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:38 pm

For things to look simple on the surface many times requires a lot of complications behind the scenes to make it look simple.
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Re: "NAGS" Zone

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:16 pm

I will be excited to see how a lot of the Pros handle some of the tight courses at Charlotte. I do expect to hear some bitching about unfair holes because some of the holes at Nevin, HN and Renny really punish you if you miss the fairway.
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