Plastic question...

by **pask2155** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:44 am

Do certain premium Plastics carry certain characteristics for discs?

For example star/ESP vs champion/z. Is star/ESP more flippy then champion/z? Or vice versa? Does one tend to be more or less stable? Which is known to to fade more or less?

OR am I looking way to much into it?

Just a question because with d and x plastic they loose their hss very fast and become less stable over time faster. Wondering what the characteristics are for the premium plastics are? I know ESP and star add grip. And champ and z are durable. So they hold the has longer. But does one tend to be more stable then the other?

Anyways you never hear much about this and I always wondered about it

by JR » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:41 am

Star often is more HSS and LSS than Champ and ESP is less HSS and LSS than Z. Glo Z is usually more HSS and LSS than Z. X less than both of the harder Discraft plastics.

by **pask2155** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:01 pm

Huh you would think esp and star would be the same and z and chmp the same.

So what you are saying is stay discs will have more turn and more fade so a larger s curve. And champ will turn less and fade less so they keep a straight line better?

by JR » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:09 pm

No Stars are more HSS and LSS that means they turn less and fade more. HSS= high speed stability (turn) and LSS=low speed stability (fade). A Leopard in Star is a good example of a beefier mold in Star vs Champ a Valkyrie is another. The Champ Valk ain't a lot flippier than the Star but the Champ fades so much later and less that it is a straighter and longer discs.

by **Fightingthetide** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:23 pm

I've been wondering this too. Is this an effect of champ having different amounts of dome compared to star? It must be an aerodynamic factor, and dome is the only variable I can think of. PLH would still increase/decrease both HSS and LSS at the same time...right?

by **pask2155** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:07 pm

Ok I'm gonna need and example jr. Lol. Sorry. So I have a star destroyer. So it should turn less and fade more. So it should keep a straighter line and a harder fade... Right? But if it is champion then it is going to be the opposite... Turn more and fade less? So it will cut harder right and not come back as hard?

And then for an ESP nuke it's more turn and will fade less? And z is the opposite of that?

by JR » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:52 pm

Did you read my last post with two examples? Wide wings are difficult to manufacture and there are large variations between individual discs. Plastics differ and cool differently after coming out hot from the mold after being injected at very high pressure. Daytime humidity and the time of year influence how long it takes for a disc to cool off and in that time the dome and outside edge will drop. The viscosity and probably many other factors of plastic also change the shape. I have not thrown enough Destroyers to say how they fly between Champ and Star.

Nukes vary a lot with flat topped discs flipping hard. Star Destros vary too i have a first run that is flatter than the regular production ones and recently the plastic has caused the sharp cornered top like the Vulcan. Some molds are more influenced with the plastic changes XS having the largest difference between X and Z plastic. So why are you asking getting rules of thumb or academic interest? See there are no hard and fast rules because there are too many variables. Even PLH doesn't predict flight in one exception according to somebody here telling that a recent batch of Latitude discs were weird and differing from older examples. River i think was named specifically as being weird. Which sucks because the old ones are great.

by **pask2155** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:10 pm

Yes all if this is just for general information. At the moment I have friend who tell me star tends to be more under stable so flippy as well as ESP.

As far as discraft goes this seems to be true as you have stated. ESP is less hss and lss.

But between champ and star you say the opposite. And I guess I have no idea when it comes to star vs champ. I just wanted a general rule of thumb so when I go to the store and I am buying a disc I will know what more flippy and what's not.

For example if I wanted a FW then I want it to be less prone to flip but if I want a big driver I want the opposite. Make sense?

So as a rule of thumb star less flippy or more stable and champ more flippy less stable?

ESP is more flippy less stable and z is less flippy more stable... Correct?

by JR » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:27 am

ESP vs Z correct. Star vs Champ correct at least in some molds like Valkyrie and Leopard. Too bad these generalizations are too inaccurate due to run, mold and individual variations.