The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby JHern » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:53 am

Mark Ellis wrote:
JHern wrote:...
->The worse you shoot, the more throws you make, the more practice you get, the more you improve.
->On the flip side, the better you shoot, the fewer throws you make, the less practice you get, you don't improve as much.
...
Practice!


Interesting stuff here. I have never heard it described this way. Like most broad statements it has some limitations, perhaps...


Very much agree with everything you said. This conception is most accurate within the regime in which I play disc golf, which is limited to a certain frequency of rounds (I'm employed, have a career, I'm a father, and I have a lot of other irons in the fire). I'm not a natural at this game, for me to get better I need to practice, and when I do it pays off, big time. Also, if I could play a round almost every day, I'd be killing it! But alas, I can only put together enough time for 1-2 rounds/week (often not complete rounds, although my home course has 29 holes), and these are usually somewhat formalized (doubles, weeklies, monthlies, etc.), so I can't throw extra shots. I also have no opporunities to play catch, which is critical for developing the short game. When I previously lived next to a big open seldom-used field, I could throw for 30 minutes per day, and my game improved drastically...now I would have to drive to one, which basically means that it never happens.

I know what it's like to be really good at something, such that I don't need a great deal of practice to be at the top. But even in these areas I need to spend time staying up on the latest stuff, and always working new angles to have a greater impact and realize my potential. Similarly, all the top disc golf pros I've met unanimously spend a great deal of time practicing, and many spend some effort on physical conditioning in the off-season (especially if they don't already have a day job that provides it). They could throw 1020 without practicing, but with a ton of practice on top of that, they can get over 1030 and sometimes even higher. Every little bit helps, especially with the competition becoming ever greater!
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby bents » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:24 pm

When your wrist is extending before the snap, you want it to be strongly opening until it's neutral, right? And when it gets to neutral you want it suddenly strong in the other direction, causing tendon bounce, if I understand.

So to that end I thought of this exercise. You watch Star Trek: The Next Generation, with your feet on the coffee table. Then you hold a dumbbell with both hands. Rest your forearms on your legs as shown. At this angle, there's the most resistance when the wrist is closed about 30 degrees of neutral, and you can stop when you get to neutral, after a wide enough movement.

Anyway what do you guys think? Mark Ellis is always mentioning how some people are naturally better than us mortals because of their good wrists, so I thought this might push us in the right direction.

Edit: the image was obnoxiously huge so I took it down. Here's a link: http://i.pgu.me/3InbIDJC_original.jpg
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby JR » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:28 am

Sharky i have a loooot of improvement and healing to do or conversely every other old fart needs to get worse by a lot before i can think of catching up to the achievements of Doc Johnson.

Bents that exercise will help with muscle power but not necessarily the twitch muscles that are good for snapping. Cable plyometric exercise throwing weight balls up with the hands and throwing weighted discs or weight plates work too. There are different kinds of snapping movements. You described to most common one but hyper spin has a stiffer wrist that does not bend back at all and snaps to the right of wrist neutral position. Not everyone can do that safely without stretching and warming up well so limbr people might have a safety margin here. I know i do having too mobile wrists for angles control with non gorilla arms for achieving pro level wrist control with muscle power. I need to eat more spinach.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby PMantle » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:19 pm

Mark Ellis wrote:The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out



I've been throwing too hard. Or, throwing wrong. As I've posted about, I had an event a while back involving a lot of pain to my right side. Played a bit forehand to avoid reinjury. I have been feeling so good lately that I decided to play backhand today, but at what I felt like to be 75%. If I had encountered any discomfort at all, I was going to stop.

Shot a new personal best by 1 stroke.

Yes, most of my distance drives were shorter than normal, but not by much at all. One, the longest hole I play, was every bit as long as my previous longest drives there. Very slight helping wind and a hyzer flipped DX Beast just seemed to never want to come down.

I plan to stay at that effort level for a bit. See what happens and try to avoid pain.
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby 7ontheline » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:00 pm

Inside 25', I'm aiming my hyzered putt directly at the pole. At this close range I'm not having issues fading out on the left and my right chain outs have greatly decreased.

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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby bsnone1 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:34 pm

I don't remember the thread where I found the information but someone a while back compared the elbow chop to a ball golf swing (read the thread about 3 days ago) and for whatever reason, that allowed me to create SO MUCH MORE acceleration on my shots. Instant 50 ft. Pretty awesome! All of a a sudden my towel drills were snapping correctly (finally) and it was instant D on the course. For me, I can visualize that the elbow chop is like the start of the down swing of a golf club and that all of the acceleration comes from there - leading to the explosion at the end.

It's kind of amazing what works for some people. I played ball golf for 20 years before picking up disc golf and that one line has helped as much as anything.

Now to consistently get the nose down and tackle putting.
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby JHern » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:38 pm

bents wrote:....Mark Ellis is always mentioning how some people are naturally better than us mortals because of their good wrists...


Blake recommends taking up carpentry. Many of the great players have a background in something like this, one of my buddies can crush like nobody else (he is thinking about training for max distance) and he is a painter (holds a large brush or sprayer all day). See how far a mechanic, roofer, etc., can throw a disc relative to a desk jockey like most of us posting online.
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby bents » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:20 pm

JHern wrote:
bents wrote:....Mark Ellis is always mentioning how some people are naturally better than us mortals because of their good wrists...


Blake recommends taking up carpentry...


At least us desk jockies have enough experience reading technical stuff that we can read JR and understand him most of the time. But yeah I used to work in HVAC during the summers and it always put me in decent shape. But some of the dudes there that did that year-round were insanely strong. Like carrying 100 lbs of awkward sheet metal up a ladder into a 125F attic. And then bending it with their hands when the flanges didn't match up quite right.

Also, today I was at my local course, Oak Grove Park in Pasadena CA, and the big yearly tournament's tomorrow, so the pros were there practicing the course. Paul McBeth was ahead of me and I watched him hit a tree and it made me feel better. :D
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby 7ontheline » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:37 pm

bents wrote:Paul McBeth was ahead of me and I watched him hit a tree and it made me feel better. :D


Even top pros miss inside the circle, so stop beating myself up, keep focused, and bang the next one.
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby luma » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:35 pm

I had enough of sitting inside at home two days ago, but I still thought that this might not be the perfedt time to practice my backhand because of all the snow outside. So I figured a forehand might come in pretty handy too. Until now I only got out hard 180' forehand hyzers and short approaches because with longer forehands my disc would flutter really really hard. wo days ago was the day when I finally found what was my mistake, and I think that might help some other guys too.

I will try to describe this as good as possible (and as good as my English allows me to do it), I hope its understandeable... :)

I never reached back very far, so that wasn't the problem, also the elbow was near the body like with my golf swing, so that was not the issue as well. The trouble was that just before snapping the disc I would let my wrist go back a little (like when you hammer a nail into the wall, you will always take the hammer back and before hitting the nail you will let the wrist go back a little so you can generate more power) which resulted also in a drop-down motion of the wrist which put the disc on a hard hyzer angle. Trying to throw a straight release from there would always let the disc flutter like hell.
Yesterday I thought, well maybe its easier to just hold the disc on the angle you want to release it on. Then just take the disc back, make the throwing motion with your arm, and DON'T do anything else than just give the disc some spin by snapping with the wrist. Never do any move with your wrist before the snap. That's all it takes. No moving back to create power or anything. Just hold the disc at the side of your body like when you release it, keep it in your hand like that and the simply move the arm back and forth and just snap your wrist at the end.

It's just such an awesome feeling to have that forehand. I still need time to figure it out with putters and some Mids, but I can now say, that I get a controlled forehand out around 250-270' and when I try to snap it as hard as I can even over 300'. Love it :)
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby what'shisname » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:27 pm

I've been struggling with my putting for forever it seems. Been working on my mental game with some reading which is helping, but thats not the latest greatest thing i just figured out. Tonight in the garage I tried out a new grip for putting where my index finger curls in under the disc at the first knuckle instead of resting it on the front edge. Used that grip with a push putt style and wow. Best I've ever putted almost instantly. I've still got to replicate the success in real play, but I'm stoked with the results so far. Drained 30 -25' putts in a row before coming inside. The grip felt a little odd at first but by the end it felt totally natural. Can't wait to get some more putting in.
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby bents » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:07 am

I had a couple putting revelations yesterday.

First, I changed the angle of my wrist at the start of the putt. I made it so the angle of the hand relative to forearm is the same at the beginning and end of the putt. At the beginning this made it way nose-down but the arm motion tilts it up. It removes the variable of wrist rotation I was doing before (to keep the disc flat relative to the ground). I guess this means I'm doing more of a pitch putt than I thought.

Second, I spontaneously gave myself a mantra. I don't know why but it just came to me and I think it might help with timing and breathing. I started saying "serve it up" like "seerrrrvitUP" in my head, mouthing the words but not saying it out loud. The "it" is the start of the motion and the "UP" is the moment of release.

So it's only been one day practice putting like this, but I did way better than usual. We'll see how it goes.
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby PMantle » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:43 am

Mark Ellis wrote:The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Learned from 2-disc rounds: putters go far. Already seeing an improvement in my approaches by throwing putters from farther out than in the past. Wow.
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby inthedrift » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:15 pm

PMantle wrote:
Mark Ellis wrote:The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Learned from 2-disc rounds: putters go far. Already seeing an improvement in my approaches by throwing putters from farther out than in the past. Wow.


There you go - keep working on that. :)
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Re: The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Postby JR » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:20 pm

PMantle wrote:
Mark Ellis wrote:The Newest Greatest thing you just figured out

Learned from 2-disc rounds: putters go far. Already seeing an improvement in my approaches by throwing putters from farther out than in the past. Wow.


That's what i'm talking about congratulations!!! I would not wonder if other throws improve as well as a result of learning to control putters. It has happened to many if not all.
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