Beginner/Amateur Disk Questions

Disc Golf Talk

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Beginner/Amateur Disk Questions

Postby Cortland15B » Tue May 27, 2014 11:37 pm

Hi my name is Cortland and I started getting into disk golf 2 summers ago. I've been playing on and off since then. Just amateur play whenever I have spare time, for fun. I've been slowly accumulating disks and now have 7. I started out with just a Leopard DX 171g and a Innova Aviar 172g. I watched some youtube videos on how to properly throw a disk, and have a pretty good form down. I then added a PRO Wraith 171g and a Innova Cobra DX 177g mid-range. It took me a little bit to get the hang of the Wraith but I figured out how to throw it well, with a little hyzer or something? I think thats what they call it, when you angle your wrist to the right so it goes right then curves back. I am a right handed player and I throw forehand? The same general motion that you would use to throw a normal frisbee. I just added a Sidewinder 175g DX, R-PRO Wahoo 172g, and a DX Shark 140g.

I like all of my disks so far except the Wahoo, I got it for water hazards mainly. I haven't had much chance to work with the Sidewinder but so far it has seemed like a disk I will like. Now for a little background on my physical attributes. I don't have very much upper-body strength, I'm 5.7" tall, flexible, skinny/lanky, and a teenager. My goal is to drive farther, my putting is good as well as mid-range throws but my drives need to get better. The course we practice on is spread across a field behind the elementary school, 9 holes, not very big. Only on a few holes can we actually drive full force. Most I have to use my Cobra on. The other course we play is Highbridge Hills. Only been there once though, plan on going more this summer.

I want to stick to Innova for now, I've just started to look into the different kinds of disks and plastics and weights, its overwhelming. I don't want to have to worry about comparing brands on top of this.

Also the disks have to be good at 2 things, hold up in wind, its always windy here, and hold up to trees, lots and lots of trees.

Sorry for the lengthy read, now for the questions:

1) What do you guys think of the disks I have so far for a newer player?
2) What driver recommendations do you have for a player with my skill and physical attributes?
3) How do the different types of plastics effect how the disk flies?
4) How does the weight effect the disks?
5) If someone could link a thread that explains all the terminology that would be great!
6) Should I be buying all these drivers or do I need more putters/mid-range?
7) Since I'm not very strong upper-body wise what speed level should I focus more on?
8 ) What can I do disk wise to drive longer?

The goal of this in the end is to drive farther, to not waste money on bad disks (like the wahoo), and to make sure that I'm heading in the right direction disk wise. I fear in my quest to drive longer I've been buying too advanced of disks, to fast for me. I just need some advice.

This is chart is all I've really went off of: http://www.innovadiscs.com/media/PDF/20 ... driver.pdf

Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Cortland15B
Noob
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 10:22 pm
Favorite Disc: Wraith

Re: Beginner/Amateur Disk Questions

Postby JR » Wed May 28, 2014 1:08 am

Hello and welcome.

I do not recall the 15 year old world record off the top of my head but it is preposterous. Well past 500' i presume. Could start with a 7 actually. So on top of athleticism technique matters a lot. Not taking anything away from David Wiggins Jr. at that age he was a good athlete but he became stronger later and holds the record with 836'.

So i would practice on a field where you can change your throw based on the flaws of the previous throw quickly. You will get many repetitions which is exactly what is needed early on.

I would hold off buying discs now because you have different kinds to learn with and additional discs are good for optimizing consistency and various flight paths after your technique and power have stabilized.

I would not chase added distance with equipment changes and would rather throw Leos and slower discs to learn form and timing which creates the true distance. It is the engine not the chassis that drives fast thus far.Learning now will push everything farther forever. A pretty good deal.

I would film myself early on and compare that to the pro players. You can post a video in the video critique section.

After training the suggestions on form you will know how the behavior of your discs have changed and how far they go. Then it is a matter of determining your preference for each throw and distance. We can help to find which discs suit you then. Prior to that you could get help with wind tolerant discs now that will help your scores not skills in the short term. That would be spending money and selling your growth potential short. Skill over equipment early on every time. Equipment is just polishing the diamond of good form.

Light discs tend to fly farther but they flip easier and crash short.

Accurate advice with disc selection is impossible without knowing how far you throw. Your form plays a part in disc selection too.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11473
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: Beginner/Amateur Disk Questions

Postby Cortland15B » Wed May 28, 2014 11:20 am

Thanks,

This makes a lot of sense, today I've been practicing on my form in the house. I got a little sloppy over winter and didn't go a whole lot last year. I will try to get my form down again and then try to get a video. Do you just need my motion or do you need the flight of the disk as well? I will go to the football field or make some markers and see how far I am actually throwing.

Since disks only matter after you have a solid technique down, what disks are easier to learn technique with and what disks would be a detriment to learning technique? So which disks should I stay away from now and which should I use to help me learn and hone my technique?
Cortland15B
Noob
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 10:22 pm
Favorite Disc: Wraith

Re: Beginner/Amateur Disk Questions

Postby JR » Wed May 28, 2014 2:33 pm

Just your form is enough filmed from the side where the throwing arm is closer to the camera than your body.

Normally the quickest way to learn is to play putter only rounds and field practice introducing mids later and Leo next. Once you get enough speed to avoid discs fading early and hard faster drivers show the last bit which is getting the front of the disc down to avoid stalls. That are high stop moving and drop left.

Overstable discs mask form flaws and that is true of even putters. It is not a problem with your Aviar, Cobra and Leopard. Note that the Leo is in soft plastic that wears to unreliably flippy eventually.

Good early targets would be 200' with a putter and then the Leo becomes more easy to have fly on different lines. A skill that is necessary with each disc and distance. Then 300' with a mid which would make fast drivers manageable maybe to 380-400'. By which time putters would be in 270-300' range depending on the putter and form. Not everyone gets the same distance separation between discs.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11473
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: Beginner/Amateur Disk Questions

Postby JTdisc » Thu May 29, 2014 6:29 am

Cortland15B wrote:1) What do you guys think of the disks I have so far for a newer player?
2) What driver recommendations do you have for a player with my skill and physical attributes?
3) How do the different types of plastics effect how the disk flies?
4) How does the weight effect the disks?
5) If someone could link a thread that explains all the terminology that would be great!
6) Should I be buying all these drivers or do I need more putters/mid-range?
7) Since I'm not very strong upper-body wise what speed level should I focus more on?
8 ) What can I do disk wise to drive longer?


I'll try to answer the questions as best as I can. I'm usually pretty to-the-point, so don't take offense, just trying to give honest opinions and help out.

1. A few decent disks for starting out. Way too many drivers.

2. The biggest recommendation is to stay away from divers when starting out. Throw only mids and putters for a while. Then move up to something like a Leopard and Teebird combination. Once you can bomb those you'll have a good idea of what exactly you need next.

We need to know how far you are currently throwing. Go out on a football field or something and measure how far each of your discs fly. That will give us a better idea of what discs to recommend.

As a rule of thumb, if a faster speed disc (on Innova's flight chart) doesn't go further than a slower speed disc, stick to throwing the slower disc.

3. Different plastic has a small affect on flight, but don't worry about it right now. DX plastic will beat-in faster (or wear out) meaning it will flip easier over time and eventually become too flippy. Champion plastic lasts a really long time. Star plastic is in-between. It lasts longer than DX, but still can be beat-in some. DX is great at the beginning when you're trying out discs. Eventually, if one becomes too flippy (after a season or two) and you really love it, you may want to buy a replacement in Champ or Star plastic that will last a bit longer.

4. Heavy discs fade out a little sooner but fly straighter in the wind. Lighter discs can tend to glide a little further but can become very unpredictable in the wind. I'd recommend buying drivers in the 160-169g range and mids and putters in 170-177g.

5. I don't have a link handy, but a few things: It sounds like you throw backhand. does the back side of your hand face forward when you throw? If the right side of your body faces the target when throwing right-handed, that's backhand. Forehand is also called sidearm. The palm of your hand faces forward and the left side of your body faces forward.

An Anhyzer throw will make the disc "turn"/curve (in the direction your back/butt is facing) a bit before fading at the end. The direction a disc finishes the final portion of it's flight is called the fade, and should be toward the direction your chest is facing when lining up. A hyzer throw angles the disc so that it curves (in the direction your chest/belly is pointing) more than a flat throw.

6. Again, we need to know how far you are throwing. Chances are you'd get more distance with midranges right now, or possible fairway drivers. Stay away from distance drivers when playing. It's cool to practice with distance drivers out in a field, but when playing a real round, you'll get better scores with mids and fairways.

7. Body size/strength doesn't matter. Good form does. There are no magic numbers either. Experiment and find what works, I'll give a few suggestions below.

8. To drive longer, you need better technique and form. There's no such thing as a magical better disk to give you more distance.

Disk suggestions

Putters: You're good. Pick up another DX Aviar 170g or more so you have two to practice with.

Mid Ranges: The Cobra is a good understable (flippy) disc. Pick up a 170g+ DX Roc or Shark for a slightly overstable (straighter disc in the wind or when you need more fade at the end). The 140g Shark you have might not hold up to well in a wind.

Fairway Drivers: The Leopard is great to start with. I would also pick up a 160-169g DX Teebird or Eagle to practice with. Before long these should be your go-to drivers.

Distance Drivers: Stay away from these for now. One you can get Teebirds/Eagles/Leopards out 250' or more consistently, then you'll know you're ready for DDs and which ones you want.

Good luck, happy discing.
JTdisc
Noob
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:49 am
Favorite Disc: Escape

Re: Beginner/Amateur Disk Questions

Postby Cortland15B » Fri May 30, 2014 6:30 pm

I like straight forward people so its ok, I am just starting to get into researching so I'll take any advice I can get.

You're right it is backhand, the back of my hand is facing the basket when I'm holding the disc.

So I went out onto the football field and threw the Leopard and the cobra back and forth. It was pretty windy with a side/diagonal wind that made the discs tilt to the right when I threw from one end of the field. But at the other end the wind was kind of with me and there were more trees so it wasn't as strong either.

So I started at the goal post and threw the 2 discs. Goal post to goal post is 120 yards (add 10 yards for each end zone). I was there for almost an hour, most of the time was walking though. My average would be about half way with some disks landing short of the halfway mark and some going farther. The leopard was almost always farther than my cobra but relatively close (10ft-30ft apart maybe) distance only not sideways. So that would make my average about 60 yards or 180ft.

Towards the end I started throwing the wraith, it flew about the same distance as the leopard but it seemed to do a little bit better in the wind.

I will try to get a video of my form this weekend.

Thanks for all the advice!
Cortland15B
Noob
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 10:22 pm
Favorite Disc: Wraith

Re: Beginner/Amateur Disk Questions

Postby JTdisc » Sat May 31, 2014 5:11 am

That's a good distance for starting out. It sounds like you're on the right track. The Leopard should go further, so seeing consistent distance between that and the midrange is good.

The Wraith is definitely too much right now and won't fly like it's supposed to. Throw it for fun when practicing once in a while, but it won't fly right until you get up near 300 feet of distance.

My list of recommended discs from earlier still stands. Pick up an stable-to-overstable midrange like a 170g+ Roc or Shark and give a stable-to-overstable fairway driver a try like a 164-169g DX Teebird or Eagle. These overstable discs will fly better into a headwind.

(Advanced theory here: When throwing into a wind, the disc acts like you threw it a lot faster than you actually did, and so a Wraith thrown into a headwind will think it's flying at the appropriate speed a little more and hence why it did better than some of the others into the wind. In the end, you'll still be better off throwing something like a Teebird or Eagle on a windy day, because they are a lot more controllable, but still able to stand up to a wind).

Sounds like you're on the right track. Keep it up!
JTdisc
Noob
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:49 am
Favorite Disc: Escape

Re: Beginner/Amateur Disk Questions

Postby Cortland15B » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:13 pm

I ordered and eagle 165g-169g and a roc 170g-175g so I can have more beginner disc options. What is the definitions of stable and under stable discs? Doesn't it tell you which way it turns or something?

Here is a video I got, its from behind so I'm not sure if its useful or not, any critiquing is welcome. This wasn't the best throw but the general mechanics of a good throw are the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7QS31tcZds
Cortland15B
Noob
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 10:22 pm
Favorite Disc: Wraith

Re: Beginner/Amateur Disk Questions

Postby JTdisc » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:15 am

Stability refers to how straight a disc flies. An understable disc (when thrown right hand back hand) will tend to turn to the right in the early part of it's flight. A stable disc will only have a slight turn and an overstable disc should fly very straight initially. At the end of it's flight, all discs will fade back to the left, but an overstable disc will fade sooner and harder.
JTdisc
Noob
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:49 am
Favorite Disc: Escape

Re: Beginner/Amateur Disk Questions

Postby JR » Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:37 am

Your form is like a frequently asked questions of what to change thus the main page articles should be read each of them. Try to pull the disc in a straight line now you reach back so that your body is between the target and the disc so if you managed to pull straight you'd dissect yourself. You can reach back way way farther back adding distance as long as you don't lose balance. By turning the head, shoulders and feet up to 180 degrees away from the target and planting the x step and the final step between 180-90 degrees away from the target you will add mad distance . It is normal to lose timing reaching back farther but your current form needs to go so it is not a problem. That is a positive thing because there are lots of easy fixes. You turn in a continuos motion from reach back to the disc leaving. It should be three staged movement. The first is to take the dfinal step which brings the disc to the left side without moving the arm when the nose, navel and knees point 90 degrees left of the target. Then you should stop the right leg hard but prior to that you have to learn safety in raising the ball of the foot high into the air or you'll twist your ankle, knee etc. up to the neck. During the right leg being stopped in place the arm should move so that the elbow is the closest part of you to the target and the disc is by the right pectoral muscle. The final stage is pushing with the left leg twisting the hips and turning the shoulders to the right straightening the elbow. The elbow nneds to start straightening before the shoulder to elbow line points at the target. If that happens the elbow is too bent to open freely and it hurts like hell and can injure you.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11473
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace


Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest

cron