Vibram Discs (don't get caught without your rubber)

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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby veganray » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:06 am

I exhaustively tested the Sole & Ibex over the weekend. I don't think either will make my bag in their current forms.

The Ibex, while a somewhat glidey straight-flyer with predictable fade, needs too much launch speed for me to be comfortable with it as a mid. Every time I tried a finesse shot with it, it would never glide at all & just immediately fade hard, coming up woefully short. If, on the other hand, I gave it the full treatment, it flew beautifully, oftentimes too beautifully, overshooting the mark. It would be useful for only a small subset of mid shots, those where you have to give it a 85+% huck and have no trouble at all behind the target. As I already have a Gremlin that can perform that shot (and a lot of others, as well), I have no use for the Ibex. I could see how others would (John Biscoe loves it), but not this guy.

The Sole is a delightfully floaty flyer. If released cleanly, it performs well as a nicely straight uphill & flat-ground putter, falling in flight somewhere between a Ridge & a Summit (much closer to a Ridge) for me. It really shines on drives, holding any line given it & keeping it even when the slow float kicks in. I could see it in my bag except for one problem: the release for me is woefully inconsistent. I lined up stacks of different putters (Wizards, XDs, Aviars, VPs, Ridges, & Summits) as well as two Soles. Putting at 50-ish feet I had a clean, crisp release on every single throw with the other putters, but on about 35% of the Sole throws, the disc came out all wobbly & anemic. This result held up over several hundred trials. My guess is that it is an artifact of the material (I prefer extremely soft putters & the Soles I have are hard-ish), and I probably need to retest when X-Link soft Soles become available. Until then, its long-range duties will be fulfilled by the Goblin in my bag (which also fills in as a mad uphill/tailwind putter) and the everyday putting role will stay with the Ridge. More to come if/when I ever get my mitts on an X-Link soft Sole…
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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby Smyith » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:55 pm

was at a tournament yesterday with a poor selection of discs to choose from for winnings. ive been looking for a predictable and consistent understable driving mid for sometime now. so i figured id give a Med Summit a try. it felt great in the hand and has good grip. ive only gotten to throw it maybe a cpl dozen times but so far im really liking it. its not a flippy putter but a touch putter. release it the line you want it to fly and it will go. it also doesnt have alot of glide so its very easy to judge the power to distance ratio needed (i LOVE rhynos so this disc is like its opposite). im gonna work with it for awhile and run through all the tests. kinda makes me regret not giving Vibram a fair chance earlier ($19 a disc is really steep!). also, love the random ass colors in the plastic

VR would you say that Ibex is more of a driving mid than a workhorse mid?
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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby veganray » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:01 pm

For me, yes.
Ryen91 wrote:I am pretty sure I am more intelligent then you think and have allot more knowledge then your post might suggest.


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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:10 pm

The Ibex does dead straight really well. Like really really well from a slight hyzer.
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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby veganray » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:17 pm

I concur, but only if thrown hard.
Ryen91 wrote:I am pretty sure I am more intelligent then you think and have allot more knowledge then your post might suggest.


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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:27 pm

very true.
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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby JR » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:19 am

I washed my Xlink Ascent and Trak while rubbing them under hot tap water after a couple of seconds of time to work with Ajax kitchen grease remover and the grip became way better. The uneven surface on top of those discs gripped really well in 48F. I'll have to see how they hold up in the rain to see just how good the grip is. I was pretty tired to exhausted as the session progressed. My longest tosses were around 355'. The Trak had some trouble in fairly mild headwinds, if there were gusts. In constant headwind it had no troubles handling mild winds. That was the most there was today. The Ascent is power hungry and won't stay flat for that long. I see, what people have called a lack of glide, but there are way less gliding discs out there and all of them are quite to very overstable.

The reason i tried these is needing to get a longer disc than FLX Buzzz with great grip and reasonably low power requirement for winter. When the snow gets deep running ain't so easy or an option. I also wanted a straight disc that could handle the winter winds by the sea. The Trak may not be wind tolerant enough, but i'll see it only, when i throw in winter gear in winter conditions. I think it fades too much for winter stand stills to stay within the local tunnels and might not be really longer than mids in those conditions. The grip helps a lot and sidearming with these discs is easy thanks to the shallow profile and great grip. I wonder how much better they feel in warm weather. I also need to see how the Ascent fares in real headwinds. I hope it straightens out nicely in fairly hard winds.

Having been bitten by altitude holding finicky discs tilting in unintentional ways on a bad day i got more wary of super well gliding discs. There are good reasons to throw underpowered and on days, when your form ain't massacred by exhaustion and body parts twisting every which way, it is also good to have discs that don't glide so far off sideways. That is some safety margin is good. You certainly can get Traks and Ascents moving a lot sideways, but not that drastically, when it is unintentional. As safety discs for staying in the fairway and not blowing by too far Traks and Ascents work well.

IMO having the best of both worlds by having glide kings and semi to full on bricks helps in handling more situations with safety margin on each shot. Utility or general purpose. I have a feeling, that if the Ascent and the Trak can handle bed rock and broken glass on my home course i'll like these even more. And i have a suspicion i will like these more than in the first field sessions. And i had an ok day with finicky discs. The best ever in fact for Comet ESP, GL Fuse and clear Ion. So it's not a matter of having sour grapes for having poor results with those, when i was not completely rested after a flu. In bag building and playing safe i think both drivers from Vibram are gonna shine in adding safety margin and repeatability to the throws.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby niuvalleycane » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:24 am

late to the party;

Which current run Vibram putter flies most like a Champ Rhyno for approaches?

Thanks!
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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby jubuttib » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:44 am

niuvalleycane wrote:late to the party;

Which current run Vibram putter flies most like a Champ Rhyno for approaches?

Thanks!
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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby niuvalleycane » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:54 am

jubuttib wrote:
niuvalleycane wrote:late to the party;

Which current run Vibram putter flies most like a Champ Rhyno for approaches?

Thanks!
If you're looking for overstability, get a VP.


Thanks, will order one today.
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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby JR » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:15 am

Grip tackiness will be more than the Champion plastic with those discs, that have not been scrubbed as diligently as they should. Even in firm VPs. With scrubbed Firms the grip is significantly tackier than even in soft clear Champion Rhynos.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby Smyith » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:04 pm

Frank Delicious wrote:The Ibex does dead straight really well. Like really really well from a slight hyzer.


so this Ibex isnt as versatile as the real Ibex huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IW7KoYsWcM (about 12sec in)
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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby rooneytunes » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:28 pm

hmmm..... Idea for Vibram's first factory hotstamp??
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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby JR » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:33 am

There was a fair bit of wind and especially gusts today. The Ascent and Trak did not handle head winds as well as i expected with full power. With approach form and initial hyzer both flipped flat and went 300'. I wasn't accelerating fully in the end, but going for accuracy. The Trak was danced around and fades more than tunnels need. The Ascent faded even more, but didn't stray in the wind so it is much more dependable. Both have great grip. To the point of grip locking too often. Gotta see if that will go away with pushing the elbow out further than i was early in the session, when i threw these. And throwing rested, because my late acceleration wasn't in top form all the time. Actually it got better later, when i remembered top pay more attention to getting the elbow forward and got the elbow chopping faster. Also from better muscle guiding concentrating on really backhand slapping with the elbow straightening.

The grip on the Trak and Ascent after grease remover and rubbing is so great, that i will test the Ibex too for grip alone in the winter season.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Vibram Discs (NEW MOLDS PDGA APPROVED)

Postby NoLifeLeft » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:37 am

JR wrote:Both have great grip. To the point of grip locking too often.

This happened to me too when I tried out the Ascents and why I haven't been in a hurry to try the Trak.
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