Vibram Discs (don't get caught without your rubber)

[death by hyzer]

holy shit. after a few years of being a disc minimalist (thanks to you retards) i finally picked up an overstable putter for driving purposes. i played 2 rounds today with a VP and was blown away. i feel it compliments a magnet very well, just what i was looking for. i'm cancelling my day drinking/NBA watching plans tomorrow just to play a another couple rounds with it. flies good man

[JR]

Now you know why i've not been a total minimalist after getting more than my starter discs. The VP is great but even it won't handle the worst storms in drives into the wind. In all honesty i'd say that the winds were more suited to TBs or Preds than they were a putter because mids would be tested too. Brick like mids too. I've encountered those situations rarely and i've played in winds that have knocked down a lot trees in my city.

[tgm]

I just played my first few rounds with an Ibex last weekend. I was happy with the disc overall. It's very Buzzz like but with a little bit less glide and speed. I nailed a long approach from about 200ft which was awesome. It's not going to kick out my Buzzz or Roc right away but I like playing our 3 disc rounds now with the all Vibram setup (ridge, ibex, ascent). I want to give the Trak a shot now and I really hope they come out with a nice overstable FB/Pred alternative.

[JR]

I threw my soft Sole, Trak and Ibex yesterday. Four month hiatus, ice on the ground winter gear and a too short throwing area with rear winds. The Trak was sensitive to the grip bending easily even when the fingers were pulling the rim to outside edge against the palm. The bending was worse with other finger pulling directions so a mild grip was a must initially. I didn't detect problems with the few throws i got with a late hard pinch with the index finger and the thumb. The soft Trak i have had a little downward deformation in the flight plate. The material is too soft to maintain shape in a bag with other discs but in 36F the grip wasn't an issue tackiness wise even with the snow that was a little moist from being in the sun and the air being above freezing point. The flight was more understable than a regular Trak in the high speed portion of the flight. The wind and conditions of the underpowered throws made it hard to say about the LSS but i got the impression the fade is later and milder with the soft. Unlike the normal Trak the soft is a fairly straight hyzer flipper that would stay in the fairway on tighter holes that are not tunnels.

The Ibex glides more than a C MD2 and might be a little faster and is only a little longer but the difference is there each time. Surprisingly good HSS without flipping with a sure fade that would be too much on the tightest holes underpowered. A perfect good mid other than for the softer material than the Trak. You can't grip hard because the disc deforms in more axes than one with even a moderate grip. OAT it and it will bend so much that you could very well be frightened by it because it is an unusual feeling. That could lead to an early release.

The Sole is unwise in the material floppiness IMO. While a clean throw with a very mild grip without pinching it in the end can fly fine out to approximately 260' and perhaps more without the restrictions i had i don't think the material would work in any higher temps. It is too borderline for repeatable performances if you ever have even minute OAT at 36F. Who doesn't once in a while? This weakness could turn to a strength in much colder conditions as the disc freezes to become more solid. The flight is great especially for a disc that isn't as tall as a lid. There is some lid likeness in the flight but with much more HSS. I did not get any turn at all so it is a bonus but the fade was very lid like and the action was very slow indeed. I can't say about the annies and hyzers because all i threw were lasers. I can't tell about how it would stick to the ground on grass, rocks etc. but it is fast enough to probably move a little after landing on fast tosses if it lands away from flat. With the super floppiness barring rollers the bounces should be inconsequential everywhere else but near cliffs. Which is a consideration around here.

There are few straighter putter drivers out there. The height is enough for a large handed player to get a hold of and tolerable to a medium hand sized short fingered thrower with large motion range of the fingers. I didn't have finger sticking issues so that is nice. The matte feeling surface feel produced a better grip outside than i anticipated based on indoors fondling. No slippage issues even with the necessary light grip. I can't tell what would happen with a full power throw though.

I wasn't putting with the Sole but i threw it at low power too and there is some fade and the glide is among the best of the drivers but with significantly less for a laser putter than light APXs, Ions, Anodes and Rattlers. The Anode flies even straighter and glides a little better but is slick so if a regular Sole shares the flight path and ain't too floppy (haven't touched one yet) it could be a good rainy day substitute for the Anode/Ion for laser putters. For those that don't want their putter flying too far to overlap with the mids and reducing the chances of overthrowing the basket the Sole is easier to limit the range with so it has that going for it. I like this disc a lot if you can get over the material. I hope the firmer version flies the same and is rigid and tacky enough so that i won't have to endure slips of the Anode or pick a more fading disc. As it is i have a Pure in the softer plastic for that eventuality but at least in the firmer plastic for some reason i lose repeatability at over 230' so it ain't a fix and the soft APX is not a good driving putter although in lighter weights it covers the Anode/Ion for laser putts and sorter approaches without trouble. Thus far i've had to make compromises in tunnels in the rain. I will buy a regular Sole to see if it solves the problems if it is rigid and tacky enough.

[JR]

The soft Ibex can take 310' on a clean throw in winter time but it is so easy to make it flex. When it is flexed and hyzering or annying it will move enough sideways to be a problem in the tightest places. But the fade ain't so bad at all when hyzered and in many cases a little off ain't a bad thing. I've had so many discs to try out that i still haven't gotten to getting a regular Ibex and Sole. The Sole thrown with a slow first step and 8-9' long x step released flat flew on absolute lasers on some occasions. The height of the throw makes a relatively large impact on the distance of the throw and the best D window height is small. The glide is less than with the the Anodes i compared and the D is less. Mostly 270-280' with one toss out to 290' with rear wind. The glide is enough to make the disc not drop when hyzered and annied but the sideways moving ain't enough for the tightest turns like with an Aviar P & A but more than with the Anodes. Flexing of the soft Sole is a problem and more common than with the Ibex. I still think the soft Trak flies on better lines than the regular. But i'm a sucker for straight flights and i get by with the Gator for meat hooks under Force distances. And so far i've not needed a Spirit to support the Force. And there are many discs that fade enough to replace the regular and soft Trak. Including powering down longer drivers.

The fine velour type surface feel and the material helped in reducing slips. I found it odd that i got so many slips with other discs during a round vs not so many on the field. No slips on the field with the Sole and one minor during the round in an anny drive.

[backflip]

The Sole you are looking for is the med Sole. My local store had a stack of softs and mediums and the softs were soft like a blowfly. the mediums were just right. grippy and firm. glidey with a bit of stability. hear me now believe me later.

[dgdave]

I want some 41D Vibram everything and 22lb VPs.

Oh Vibram. I miss the good ole proto days.

[JR]

The Sole you are looking for is the med Sole. My local store had a stack of softs and mediums and the softs were soft like a blowfly. the mediums were just right. grippy and firm. glidey with a bit of stability. hear me now believe me later.

That is what i was planning on buying. The grip along with as little flip and fade as possible are highest on my driving requirement list because i like the Anode and it is not gonna be usable in the rain. I am fine with a soft APX on putts in the rain but there are some tunnels including uphills that need way more HSS than the APX and way less LSS than a Ridge or a mid like a Coyote or a Spider. I have a super grippy Warlock that can't handle any tree hits and grip from shape for taller discs eliminates them. The sole has none of the drawbacks for me or i have not ran into them yet. It is so good that if the grip in a washed medium is fine and it has the same HSS and LSS or even more HSS i may have to use that instead despite the shorter distance. I'm not ruling out that option despite loving the Anode for some user error tolerance because it is so straight even when i wobble it a bit and get it to flip a degree or two it is gonna stay on the fairway in many tunnels. I don't think the Sole is gonna be as forgiving as that but more rounds experience is mandatory.

BTW i absolutely hate the soft Sole for putts in a little over 40F. I hit dead center low at normal lowish speed and it gripped the chains so much that it spun out left and on another similar throw bounced straight back despite the bounce being barely over the Headrick. It is great for approaches and drives but not at all in the putts. The firmness of the medium determines how it will bounce and spit out if it does and that plays a major role in the putting. The soft Sole 167 i have fades enough to stray off earlier from a laser path than medium 168 Anode thus the Anode is better in long putts for a laser putter like me. Or actually at longer ranges i do have a minor down to up pitching motion and a couple of degrees of anny to keep the disc in the hit zone of the basket for the greatest possible amount of time of the flight.

[NoLifeLeft]

My Medium Trak has been damn good. I bought one just to try out but it is making a strong bid for a spot in the bag. Mine has been flying like a well beat Champ Teebird.

[JR]

Not again! I really really hate when people describe a different flight than i get from my discs. I would have thought that Vibram pressing the discs would get consistent flight. So is it the TBs that vary or is something off in my, your or the form of both of us? Grr. I've thrown several Teebirds including champs and some are new some broken in. The only Trak medium i have fades earlier and harder than new Teebirds thus being shorter.

[NoLifeLeft]

My Med Trak is like a Champ TB with a few years of wear so that it turns a bit when thrown full tilt but will still stay in the air and bomb (by fairway driver standards) when released on a slight anny.

I need to try another one to see how they vary from disc to disc.

[JR]

Come to think of it the HSS is like that of used Champ TBs but the LSS of the Trak is more. And that makes the Trak much shorter and piggy.

[Jeronimo]

I have a flippy ass Trak, a BOMB-ASS Trak, and an overstable bitch Trak. So... yeah.

[NoLifeLeft]

I have a flippy ass Trak, a BOMB-ASS Trak, and an overstable bitch Trak. So... yeah.

That sucks to hear.

[JR]

For pressed in a mold discs that is discouraging to hear especially from a company that has so much options and experience material technology wise.