Star Aviar

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Star Aviar

Postby Bradley Walker » Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:27 pm

I have been throwing Aviars for a while, and I throw a lot of putter drives.

What can I say? The Star Aviar is the bomb...

I thought the Star plastic would make the standard Aviar more stable for wind throwing. Well.., it didn't... What it did do however was make the Aviar throw like a great Aviar. Very smooth, beautiful flight with great glide (like a good DX Aviar).

The Star plastic is about the right hardness for throwing and not too hard for putting.

I assume the Star plastic will last a long time.
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Postby Eric O » Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:47 pm

Star and esp are great. Just what the doctor ordered.

I can't buy into the DX driver school of thought. Google earth my home course and all you see is acres of dense tree canopy. Until the new plastics came out candy plastic is the only thing that wouldn't change flight charasteristics after every round or two.

I guess this was supposed to be about putters, but I am excited about star plastic and such.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:07 pm

Eric O wrote:I can't buy into the DX driver school of thought.

I guess this was supposed to be about putters, but I am excited about star plastic and such.


Sadly. I have to agree. I cannot take this constant changing of the disc over time.

My bud bought a DX Beast in the new DX the other day. It was fried after one tree. The rim turned white at the spot it hit (the disc was blue) and it took a chunk out of the rim. It was automatically a hard turnover disc with one tree!!! Man , I was stunned.

I have to admit I hate Champ plastic. But I really like Star, you just have to "tweak" the disc ratings.

My Star Sidewinders are only hard turnover drivers in a strong headwind, and that is only when you snap it hard. In the calm air (less than 10 MPH wind) the Star Sidwinder behaves more like a hyper fast Roc. It just holds whatever angle you put on it.
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Postby zealot » Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:40 pm

ive been using star aviar for a few weeks and its amazing

in fact

it is immortal


:roll:

in fact, im going to get another one.
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Postby Rooster » Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:48 pm

ESP/Star is great for mids ans drivers but not for putters. give me good old Pro D/DX anyday. Sticks in the chains better.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:21 pm

Eric O wrote:Star and esp are great. Just what the doctor ordered.

I can't buy into the DX driver school of thought. Google earth my home course and all you see is acres of dense tree canopy. Until the new plastics came out candy plastic is the only thing that wouldn't change flight charasteristics after every round or two.

I guess this was supposed to be about putters, but I am excited about star plastic and such.


have you ever tried throing around the trees? ;-) just kidding, however If I am going to have a shot that will be tough to get through the trees I will generally throw a more controlled shot w/ a short driver or a mid. (and I know tree hits are inevitable, but not as inevitable as hitting the hard frozen gound playind during the winter...
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:35 am

I cannot take this constant changing of the disc over time.


all discs change over time. next time you see someone dump a year old champ teebird into a pond, watch them go through the entire 5 step program of emotions before they finally bite the bullet and take off their shoes and socks.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:59 am

Blake_T wrote:
I cannot take this constant changing of the disc over time.


all discs change over time. next time you see someone dump a year old champ teebird into a pond, watch them go through the entire 5 step program of emotions before they finally bite the bullet and take off their shoes and socks.


I do that for all my discs. So what is your point?

I also have a picker for creeks and such.

Star "breaks in" very little, and when it begins to change it will take a "tweak" to go back. DX will also, but to a lesser degree.

Hey, its all good.
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Postby Weebl » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:49 am

Blake_T wrote:
I cannot take this constant changing of the disc over time.


all discs change over time. next time you see someone dump a year old champ teebird into a pond, watch them go through the entire 5 step program of emotions before they finally bite the bullet and take off their shoes and socks.

I've resigned to buying premium plastic discs from play it again sports for this reason unless I want an overstable suited disc.
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:37 am

So what is your point?


the point is that the way you worded things undermines the progression for most players. you have more power than the average player (especially average newer player) and their findings with discs will be far different.

after working w/ 500+ players, i can safely say that players that have a good shot variety and good power can comfortably throw premium plastics. i can safely say that players who do not have shot variety and/or power cannot develop those things while throwing premium plastics.

wording becomes important, because most players nowadays start with premium plastic and simply don't want to believe they are throwing the wrong discs. the end result is me having to re-sell the idea through multiple long-winded posts that i don't really feel like typing again and again.

so yah, it's me being pissy :P

although, i have a feeling a month from now there's 5 people asking why they can't throw a star teerex straight with 225' of average power.
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Postby zealot » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:47 am

rofl, GREAT post blake! everyone should read that
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Postby Bradley Walker » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:00 am

Blake_T wrote:
So what is your point?


so yah, it's me being pissy :P

although, i have a feeling a month from now there's 5 people asking why they can't throw a star teerex straight with 225' of average power.


You are a good guy, Blake. I like you!!!

I preach Cyclones, Rocs/Wasps/Buzz, and Aviars for most players in DX and D plastic. Until you can heyser snap one of these into the ground, why switch? If you don't like the Cyclone try a Valk. Get a Leopard for turnovers.

Cheetahs for women, my wife throws her 150 T-Bird very well.

There should be a pass required to get into the "back room" in the disc golf store to get a disc other than the ones mentioned. Only after 20 rounds should anyone earn access.

My bud Mike can throw a Tourney plastic Cylcone right out there with me a lot of the time, because he has a little less snap than me and can not overpower the disc. I played with some good local players the other day, and they were all impressed with my snap and disc speed, yet they were right out there with me on nearly every hole. I was throwing darts and they were throwing lazy S-curves that glided forever. THIS REALLY GOT ME THINKING A LOT!!!!

It is all about the "crusing speed" or "glide". Speed is cool. I like having speed, it can be an advantage, but a very limited one. You must learn to make the disc "fly". I believe this is the heart of the Blake philosophy. What you call "finesse". I really kind of missed that somewhere along the way. I have 20 or so cyclones that I ultimately practice with, but I do not practice NOT throwing hard...I always threw hard, but times are changing!!!

I undertand the responsibilites that must come from being a disc golf coach, but there must be a discussion of plastics for beginners though, as beginners with premium discs are all I see when I play .

The Star Sidewinder/Orion LS type discs are very good discs for the developing player for example, especially in lighter weights (including 150). They certainly are not NECESSARY to play well at all, but certainly would not hurt a player's progress (and this is the important disctinction, I thought).

Truthfully most beginners could not tear up a DX style disc (just stay away from rocks and concrete). They simply do not have the speed to create a substantial collision, but how do you tell somebody that without hurting their feelings?
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Postby rehder » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:28 pm

This is slightly offtopic, but Im the newb that doesnt want to end up in the place thats being talked about here. But I have a question. I have started to turn my clones over (unless thrown with lots of hyser) and was wondering if I should progress to DX Teebirds or stick with Cyclones. Truth be told I have a newish cyclone that only turns over a little bit when thrown. But Im afraid it is going to go the same way as the other two cyclones as soon as I use it some more.

So am I ready for Teebirds?
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Postby Eric O » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:53 pm

rehder wrote:So am I ready for Teebirds?
I honsetly don't think Teebirds are nearly as beginner friendly as some people on this board seem to indicate.

Imo, you won't outgrow Cyclones as a control driver for quite some time, but you can definitely outgrow baseline plastic!

I want to be careful about how I say this because I know it is a touchy subject. I agree with the Blake T philosophy on plastic as it applies to learning the fundamentals of a golf drive and understanding flight characteristics, but I strongly feel that there is a place for premium plastic in the bags of most players once they have an understanding of the basics and cheap plastic starts changing flight characteristics more quickly. Maybe in the past it was standard practice to rotate a bunch of DX drivers in the same mold, but it seems more economical to have just a couple discs where you would have a whole stack of them in DX. Throwing them is also more of a no brainer when you can eliminate having to pick through for a disc in the proper state of wear and having to always adjust on the fly for increasing understability.

One additional point in favor of premium plastic is the new blends. From all accounts so far the new blends fly better than candy plastic while still retaining their original flight characteristics pretty well.
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Postby Bradley Walker » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Eric O wrote:
rehder wrote:So am I ready for Teebirds?
I honsetly don't think Teebirds are nearly as beginner friendly as some people on this board seem to indicate.


I totally agree with just about everything you said.

I never found the DX Teebird to be particularly forgiving at all.

Are you throwing max weight Cyclones?
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