DX valk - effect of weight

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DX valk - effect of weight

Postby KRooster » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:04 pm

I recently changed my drive from throwing waist-high hyzers to chest-high flat releases (from everything I read, chest-high was the best way to drive). I was getting good D (300' consistently, sometimes farther) with a 166g DX valk when I was throwing it low and hyzer, but now when I throw it chest-high and flat the thing flips on its side about 200' out (or less sometimes). It's been used a bunch, but I wouldn't call it beat and it hasn't had any major collisions with trees (no gouges or scratches).

I tried a 165g star valk..... can't get the thing to turn, except maybe slightly 1 out of 8 throws. Pretty much just goes perfectly straight then fades a bunch at the end.

I picked up a 170g DX valk, and well I can get it to turn for huge D maybe once out of 8 throws.... most throws go straight and fade left at the end, similar to the 165g star valk just slightly farther.

My D has gone up slightly, but I can't get a consistent S-curve with the heavier discs, so I know I'm limiting my D potential.

Does that sound normal, that I can massively flip a 166g DX valk, and can only get a 170g DX valk to turn some of the time? Should I wait for the 170g DX valk to get beat so I can consistently throw a nice S curve, or should I get an even lighter (162-163g?) star valk since that will not change its flight characteristics and I can probably get that to turn?

Just wondering if anyone has any tips that may be useful, it's getting rediculous buying so many valks just trying to find one that works for me.
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Postby ParanoidPiranhasDave » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:44 pm

It just sounds to me like your lighter, older Valk is just beat up. Both my valks changed flight characteristics dramatically through their aging--more so than my teebirds for sure. My old dx valk flips when thrown flat and won't right itself when thrown anhyzer until very late in its flight, if at all; whereas my new one won't flip up and will S-curve nicely. Both my valks are low 170s.

My (limited) experience with discs has taught me that weight plays far less a part than one might think within the high 160/low 170 range. I usually just aim for 170ish and buy the brightest color I can find.

Hell, I've read that the weights are so inaccurately labeled that those two valks could be exactly the same weight anyway.
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Postby Sokpuppet » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:00 pm

If you really feel like buying another disc, I would suggest a Pro valk. Much, much longer break in period, without being piggishly overstable.

You should work with what you have, though. You might want to leave the Star valk in the trunk... the high-end plastics are crazy overstable. Getting a Star valkyrie to fly properly might demand more throwing power than you (or I) have. Especially when it's brand new! Put enough hyzer on your broken-in valkyrie, and it will fly like you want it to.
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inconsistent plastic

Postby twmccoy » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:12 pm

DX plastic is flat out inconsistent. I've thrown lots of DX valks (all of them in good condition) and they all seem to fly differently. I've seen ones that flip on a dime and others that won't flip unless you force them. I'd try a light champion valk (150-160g). These tend to be fairly consistent from disc to disc and won't wear out like DX plastic.

I even ran into a rogue archangel that flew like a heavy champion teebird. This disc could not be flipped period.
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:37 am

KRooster:

what you are probably experiencing is that a 166g dx valk likely weighs 167g, while the 170g probably weighs closer to 176g.

the heavier one might also be one of the newer flat tops w/ a pulled up wing, which are more stable.
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Postby KRooster » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:28 am

Thanks for the info.... well I got the discs on a scale. The 166g and 170g DX valks are in fact 166g and 170g. I did notice that the 166g valk has a perfectly flat top, whereas the 170g valk is very domey.

Blake, you mentioned that the newer ones with a flat top are more stable.... are there any older valks that were really domey and even more stable? I got the domey one at a store where it may have been sitting for awhile, not sure how old it is.

Or, the lighter valk is just more beat than I think it is. Guess I'll see what happens when I play with the heavier one for awhile and beat it up a little.
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Postby Eric O » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:12 am

Sokpuppet wrote:You might want to leave the Star valk in the trunk... the high-end plastics are crazy overstable. Getting a Star valkyrie to fly properly might demand more throwing power than you (or I) have. Especially when it's brand new!
I just picked up a new 170g Star Valk a few days ago. Flies like a dream right out of the box for me. I max out not far past 275ft of golf D, so I imagine most people could throw this disc well.
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Postby KRooster » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:39 am

Eric,

I would be amazed if you can throw not far past 275' golf D, and you can throw a 170g Star Valk. I've got 300' of golf D, and I have both a 165g and 168g star valk.

165g star valk I can BARELY get to turn some of the time, other times it just goes straight with no turn.

168g star valk is WAY overstable for me. It goes plenty far, but has massive fade when compared with the 165g, and no way can I get even a tiny bit of turn out of it.

I will be avoiding Star plastic, at least until I get much better :)
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:41 am

KRooster:

you don't need to turn all discs over to get good D.

only a handful of discs get more than a 2-3% bump from being turned over vs. flying straight and fading.

you may wish to experiment with throwing slight anhyzer or with some forced torque on the disc to get a turn out of the discs you haven't been able to. not saying to do it every time, but you should be able to do it when you want to.
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Postby Eric O » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:42 am

I was amazed myself, when on the first day I picked up the disc I was able to put it on the pin on holes 275 and in.
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:46 am

small note:

discs in oregon fly more understable than they do in drier air climates. they also glide better and lift more.

in oregon i used to throw valks w/ ~60-70 degrees of hyzer. in minnesota that was more like 20-30 degrees hyzer for a similar flight path.

when you hit thin air climates, the difference is even greater. i always look at it like 60/30/0. thick air requires twice the hyzer as moderate air. thin air requires about 1/3 the hyzer as moderate air.
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Postby Eric O » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:53 am

That's good to know for the sake of comparison.
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Postby Terrence » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:54 am

I bought one of the new flatter DX Valkyries, also marked 166g. I LOVE how this disc flies. I've hit just enough trees to where it hyzer flips easily for max distance.
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Postby adamschneider » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:09 am

Blake_T wrote:discs in oregon fly more understable than they do in drier air climates.

But during much of the year -- especially the part of the year when you're most likely to be playing disc golf -- Oregon is typically drier than any place east of the Rockies.

And if it's true that "thick air requires twice the hyzer as moderate air," well, remember that humid air is thinner than dry air.

So I believe that discs probably do fly more understably in Oregon, but it would be due to drier air here, and possibly lower elevation. (100' near Portland, vs. 1000' in MN; not sure if that's enough to make a difference though.)
Last edited by adamschneider on Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:16 am

lower elevation will generally cause a less stable flight.
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