Over & Underrated discs?

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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:55 pm

black udder wrote:
JKP wrote:
black udder wrote:
domromer wrote:Overated: The wizard, it's treated like gods own putter here on DGR.


can it really be over rated if the primary fanbase is DGR? :)


Hardly any locals use them by me, no shops sell them


Yeah, that's why I mentioned it. I've seen one, maybe 2 guys throwing anything gateway in my small travels and playing time. As opposed to so many, many Innova/Discraft. Actually, I take that back, a couple other guys are throwing Gateway putters, but I did provide them with the putters.



There are a lot more guys around here throwing wizards than two years ago when I was the only one. Of course I converted half the guys myself so....
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby emiller3 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:04 pm

Overrated?
I am starting to agree with the high speed driver thing being overrated. These now seem more like specialty discs rather than primary drivers. I've gone back to driving with my Teebird primarily. However, the Groove is the only disc that I can consistently get over 400' with, so it's hard not to use it. I hope to improve my form and get back to using the Orc, which is more of a workable distance driver for me.

Using discs in various stages of wear. I know everyone here will hate me for saying this. Some discs beat into a flight that you really can't get with a new disc...straight flyers, or discs that will hold any line, or discs that have just a touch more stability in places that you need it and a touch less in places that you don't, etc...my Buzzzes and Teebirds are like that to me. But many times when people describe the flight of "disc x" when it's beaten in, it sounds just like the flight of "disc y" right out of the box, but they just seem to assume that since it's disc x is beat, you'll be more in touch with how it flies. I don't agree with that, and I've found that many times its a lot less work to have something in premium plastic that you can easily replace.

As an example, I used to beat Pro Wraiths in for long turnover drives, but now I use the Champ Monarch for a more consistent and extremely similar flight. It's easier to replace and it lasts longer in the sweet spot. Also, while I use use Wizards for P'n'A, when I want a straight flight with little fade or an anhyzer drive, I switch to a Champ BB Aviar instead. With the beat Wraiths and Wizards, I just never quite knew what to expect and it got really frustrating. I only switch to using the "beat" approach if I can't find a disc that will fly the same when new, or if those new discs don't hold their characteristics as long as a beat disc would.

Underrated?
Groove technology. As a player at altitude, I'm really glad that they're looking for ways to create similar discs with slightly more or less stability. The Monarch is as consistent a turnover disc as they come at altitude. All you guys are hatin' on it, but it's filled a gaping hole in my bag that I guess other people fill with a Sidewinder or a Leopard or a beat distance driver or something...which leads me to...
Last edited by emiller3 on Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby domromer » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:11 pm

I guess I meant the wizard is overated here on DGR. I seem to be the only one in legaue that throws them.
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:39 pm

Using discs in various stages of wear. I know everyone here will hate me for saying this. Some discs beat into a flight that you really can't get with a new disc...straight flyers, or discs that will hold any line, or discs that have just a touch more stability in places that you need it and a touch less in places that you don't, etc...my Buzzzes and Teebirds are like that to me. But many times when people describe the flight of "disc x" when it's beaten in, it sounds just like the flight of "disc y" right out of the box, but they just seem to assume that since it's disc x is beat, you'll be more in touch with how it flies. I don't agree with that, and I've found that many times its a lot less work to have something in premium plastic that you can easily replace.

As an example, I used to beat Pro Wraiths in for long turnover drives, but now I use the Champ Monarch for a more consistent and extremely similar flight. It's easier to replace and it lasts longer in the sweet spot. Also, while I use use Wizards for P'n'A, when I want a straight flight with little fade or an anhyzer drive, I switch to a Champ BB Aviar instead. With the beat Wraiths and Wizards, I just never quite knew what to expect and it got really frustrating. I only switch to using the "beat" approach if I can't find a disc that will fly the same when new, or if those new discs don't hold their characteristics as long as a beat disc would.[/quote]

Wouldn't that be over rated?

Also I believe the argument is mold minimalism and different stages of wear reduces the amount of discs you need to be familiar with and after having a disc in the bag for 6 + months you will get to know how it flies pretty well.

Most people nowadays have mold minimalism in their bag in mids and putters and carry 10 different driver molds. There are so many driver molds out there it is really easy to be able to find a disc out of the box that will fly how you want it to.
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby emiller3 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:53 pm

Frank_Delicious wrote:Wouldn't that be over rated?

Also I believe the argument is mold minimalism and different stages of wear reduces the amount of discs you need to be familiar with and after having a disc in the bag for 6 + months you will get to know how it flies pretty well.

Most people nowadays have mold minimalism in their bag in mids and putters and carry 10 different driver molds. There are so many driver molds out there it is really easy to be able to find a disc out of the box that will fly how you want it to.


Yep, meant overrated, fixed it. I guess I think the same thing about mold minimalism, too. If two people have the same number of discs to do the same number of things, who cares if one does it with 5 molds and one does it with 10, so long as each of them know their discs well? Disc minimalism is impressive to me, but mold minimalism...well, it makes me feel good, but it hasn't made me any better.

I admit, I am a casual player (once a week, if I'm lucky) and I don't get to spend a lot of time truly beating in discs, so maybe I'm missing something.
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby reallybadputter » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:28 pm

Ok, at the chance of offending many in many places:

Overrated: KC Pro Aviar... yup. its nice and firm... but slick as snot... I can't throw it without feeling like its slipping out of my hands. The DX BB Aviar has much better feel. What I'd rather have is a disc that feels like my JK feels on a crisp 20 degree morning... stiff, but grippy... maybe the R-wood in a big bead is the answer. The best feel in grippy/non-floppy disc is the 1st run 1080 supersoft that I have... but I like my putter 1 notch less stable...

Underrated:
1. E Blaze (not the clear)... grippy, stable, its an awesome short fairway driver/long midrange... (I've been playing lately with a Blaze and Sabre as my midranges with a beat to heck Proto S-blaze and a Stingray for turnover duties)

2. The Tank... wish they were still available... a less stable SE Rhyno... Awesome putter... but I stopped using mine because I didn't want to be beholden to a boutique disc... I may pull out my Y2k edition fusion tank again... :D
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby RoomTenONine » Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:35 pm

reallybadputter wrote:Overrated: KC Pro Aviar... yup. its nice and firm... but slick as snot... I can't throw it without feeling like its slipping out of my hands. The DX BB Aviar has much better feel. What I'd rather have is a disc that feels like my JK feels on a crisp 20 degree morning... stiff, but grippy... maybe the R-wood in a big bead is the answer. The best feel in grippy/non-floppy disc is the 1st run 1080 supersoft that I have... but I like my putter 1 notch less stable...


I know what you mean with the KC. That said, all my black KCs aren't nearly as slick as the white KCs. They also get much better with a beating. I've found the Wizard in S or M to be a good KC replacement. I also hear you on the wonders of the Aviar-X on a cold day.
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby widewhale » Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:57 pm

As far as very fast discs go, I think the wraith lives up to expections.
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby Beetard » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:36 pm

Overrated: APX and magnet

Underrated: Drivers and mids that fly really sweet right out of the box. I say this because I don't play courses very much anymore. I put in way more time out in an open field where my discs break in super slowly.

I've been throwing discs that I don't feel like I have to strong-arm or torque. A few days ago I watched Fred Salaz throw a few discs in person. His form was very controlled and smooth. So I'm trying to cut out the crazy white boy s**t and just let it flow.

The courses near me aren't even good for beating in discs because they're mostly wide open.

I'm up to 4 comets now and I just ordered an Xpress and a polaris LS
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby chainsmoker » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:43 pm

reallybadputter wrote:
Underrated:
1. E Blaze (not the clear)... grippy, stable, its an awesome short fairway driver/long midrange... (I've been playing lately with a Blaze and Sabre as my midranges with a beat to heck Proto S-blaze and a Stingray for turnover duties)


I think the Blaze is an awesome overstable mid in E. A few of mine say mid to long range driver on the stamp. It should say midrange/ fairway driver. You can throw them farther but they work well as a long mid / short fairway because they are so predictable. For me an E Blaze is about as long as a Roc, Wasp, Buzz, Comet because it is so overstable. I think it flies like a Drone but farther or a Predator but shorter.
What's wrong with the clear? I haven't thrown them yet
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby reallybadputter » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:59 pm

Nothing wrong with the clear... just a little slicker and the overall disc flexes more, so I like the older E plastic, but I haven't thrown the CE a huge amount. I just prefer the old E plastic from a grip and stiffness standpoint.
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby black udder » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:06 pm

emiller3 wrote:
Frank_Delicious wrote:Wouldn't that be over rated?

Also I believe the argument is mold minimalism and different stages of wear reduces the amount of discs you need to be familiar with and after having a disc in the bag for 6 + months you will get to know how it flies pretty well.

Most people nowadays have mold minimalism in their bag in mids and putters and carry 10 different driver molds. There are so many driver molds out there it is really easy to be able to find a disc out of the box that will fly how you want it to.


Yep, meant overrated, fixed it. I guess I think the same thing about mold minimalism, too. If two people have the same number of discs to do the same number of things, who cares if one does it with 5 molds and one does it with 10, so long as each of them know their discs well? Disc minimalism is impressive to me, but mold minimalism...well, it makes me feel good, but it hasn't made me any better.

I admit, I am a casual player (once a week, if I'm lucky) and I don't get to spend a lot of time truly beating in discs, so maybe I'm missing something.


I think the problem with mold minimalism comes into play when folks have so many discs for a similar role that they never truly learn them. Some folks carry 5 or 6 distance drivers and throw them all the time. I played with a good player recently who threw a boss on every hole we played, on a fairly wooded course. He was in the woods on almost every hole. Just goofy. I know he could throw something he could control better - but just doesn't.
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby Beetard » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:12 pm

A good player, you say?

In the woods on every hole? How is that, did he pull out a par or birdie every time despite being in the woods?
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby black udder » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:37 pm

Beetard wrote:A good player, you say?

In the woods on every hole? How is that, did he pull out a par or birdie every time despite being in the woods?


Actually, yeah, he is a good player. He arrived for this monthly 5 minutes late in khaki's and a button down shirt. We started on the longs and he did pretty poorly - shooting 6 over when normally he'd be under (he shot the same as me and I wasn't unhappy with my round). On the shorts though, he shot 10 under to my 2 under.

He's on the clashdvd.com site for tupelo bay. He's the guy in the grange t-shirt that gets a 3 on a 735' (or so) hole. He's a crazy gifted player who just does not (in my opinion) know how fleet that gift can be. He's young and enjoying being young, so it's hard to blame him. He can throw somewhere around 450' I guess (I don't play with him enough to know for sure. I know it's over 400') and he can be a lights out putter as well - anything from 50'-60'.

I think the other discs he threw that round were a roc and an aviar.
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Re: Over & Underrated discs?

Postby Steady 26542 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:18 pm

UNDERRATED:
Omega SS. If you haven't thrown one you should at least try it. I can only throw a driver 325' max, but I can throw the SS 250' on a string. It's just soooo straight. And the Sirius Omega flies very similar to the Wizard.
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