headwind driver? and Element-X question

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headwind driver? and Element-X question

Postby KRooster » Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:43 am

Just wondering what people who don't throw max weight discs use for a headwind driver. Right now I'm using a 169g DX Beast as my main driver (which is actually a TINY bit understable for my liking), throwing around 310-320'. Could I use a 175g DX Beast as my headwind driver, or would using a different disc be better?

Oh and also I was curious what people who have used both the Element-X and the Roc think about the two.... I've heard the Element -X compared to a beat Roc, which is exactly the type of mid I've been looking for, since I've been throwing 171-172g Rocs because any heavier is just a little too much fade, but I really like throwing 175g discs because they get thrown around less in the wind, and Sharks turn too much for me.
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Postby Sokpuppet » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:26 am

The Beast is probably not what you want to use. Not in DX, anyway.
I personally use an atypically sharp nosed X tracker for headwind shots.
I would recommend that you get your hands on something in Pro plastic. Maybe a 170-175ish pro valk.

EDIT: just got back from playing a round. weather.com says 19 MPH winds, gusting to 30... :shock:
but I'm pretty sure it was more like 25, gusting to 35 where I was playing. :o

I pulled some overstable Z drivers that I've found out of the trunk, for the occasion. My tracker outperformed them by a longshot...
The Crushes (and a Surge) were turning over and sinking into the ground after ~180 feet, while the tracker held it's line and made it out to ~270.

Some wild stuff, though... I had a couple throws where a disc would flip over and act like a roller, but skip repeatedly sideways without moving forward at all.
I also had one awful throw which went high and stopped moving forward, but kept rising straight into the air for several seconds.
Last edited by Sokpuppet on Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby kenny » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:34 am

You could use an old beast but since they dont make them anymore it might not be a good idea.
I have been going back anf forth from rocs to element xs the element x I think is more overstable if thown right than a roc but it is easy to torque over. I think that the element was made to fly like a beat roc. You could always get the misprint special and get some of both and a few other gateway for 5 for 30$
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Postby presidio hills » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:20 am

krooster,
i think a dx eagle would work great. unfortunately innova's been molding the "eagle-L" mold lately which wouldn't work in the wind. if you can find some in a proshop or tourney or a pond scavenger... just feel if the edge of the bottom wing is smooth till the edge.. or if it goes flat for a couple mm's right before the edge. the second of those two is the one you want because that little "notch" is what makes it work in the wind.
like everyone's always saying; cyclone, gazelle, or a teebird. they would all be good headwind drivers for someone throwing a little over 300'. they all have these notches that i'm talking about. it keeps the disc from flipping too much... which is what you need in the wind.
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Postby Weebl » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:41 pm

Try a Tsunami in the lighter weights or a champion teebird. Both will hold up better than any beast in wind.
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Postby zealot » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:25 pm

sok, headwinds make a disc more understable = he doesnt want to throw a valk for headwinds.

presidio, teebirds dont have the notch you are talking about.
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Postby Sokpuppet » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:43 pm

lock-off wrote:sok, headwinds make a disc more understable = he doesnt want to throw a valk for headwinds.


For those of us with under 350 feet of power, a high weight pro valk flies a stable to very slightly overstable line. Into an average headwind, it'll fly an awful lot like a DX valkyrie on a calm day. Seems like that would be okay, to me. :)
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Postby zealot » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:55 pm

if you throw under 300 maybe... i guess i was thinking of a flippy ass dx valk.... either way, i thought the rule of thumb was headwinds you throw overstable and tail under.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:35 pm

lock-off wrote:teebirds dont have the notch you are talking about.

they do.

teebirds make pretty decent headwind disc, especially in champ. however I would perfer a Z avenger, Z crush, or even a Z pred if I am throwing for distance into a headwind, because they are more stable, and are faster, and into a headwind penetration is more important than it is in no wind.
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Postby zealot » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:55 pm

i thought by 'notch' he meant 'small bead'
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Re: headwind driver? and Element-X question

Postby Fritz » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:59 pm

KRooster wrote:Oh and also I was curious what people who have used both the Element-X and the Roc think about the two.... I've heard the Element -X compared to a beat Roc, which is exactly the type of mid I've been looking for, since I've been throwing 171-172g Rocs because any heavier is just a little too much fade, but I really like throwing 175g discs because they get thrown around less in the wind, and Sharks turn too much for me.


The E-X rocks. Specially in Evolution plastic.

It's a lot like a KC-Pro Roc that is beat in.
If you put some Anhyzer on it it does a sweet S. It's great in the Headwinds, it's actually my Headwind midrange. Midrange that I need to fade to the left with confidence and control.
Definitely get one. You won't be disappointed.
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Postby KRooster » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:56 am

Well I'm getting an Element-X in S plastic, since I'd rather have something that flies like a beat DX Roc. If I like that I'll keep the Evolution plastic one in mind for headwinds.

Actually I went out today in some decent wind (nothing TOO strong, but it was definitely a steady headwind at times), and my 174g DX valk was actually working pretty well as a headwind driver. At the speeds I'm throwing a 174g valk is actually decently overstable with no wind. So I picked up a 175g DX beast cause I really really like the beast, we'll see how that works for the wind (since no one could agree on a good headwind driver hehehe, seriously though I really appreciate all the advice).

I'm sure the Teebird would be good as a headwind driver, but I really want a max D headwind driver (I need all the extra D I can get), and I don't think I'd be throwing that quite as far. Although I might be mistaken; maybe the Teebird would go farther in a headwind than heavy and/or more stable versions of longer drivers?
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Postby Jones » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:14 am

You know, the best disc that flies like a beat in Roc.... is an actual beat in Roc.

No matter how hard you can try, you can't replicate it. I've tried with other mids, but the speed and fade were always off. Other discs won't behave exactly the way it does, especially in wind. They would stay in my bag for a little while, but were always temporary.

Don't throw out the option of tossing a Roc in lighter weights either. My best one was a 166g, and once it got beat enough, it had pretty much zero fade, and with just a little bit of hyzer it would fly dead straight.
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Postby Fritz » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:41 am

KRooster wrote:I'm sure the Teebird would be good as a headwind driver, but I really want a max D headwind driver (I need all the extra D I can get), and I don't think I'd be throwing that quite as far. Although I might be mistaken; maybe the Teebird would go farther in a headwind than heavy and/or more stable versions of longer drivers?


This is my headwind setup and we get some wicked winds in CO.

Light to Medium - Sirius Orion LF or Special Blend Orc 168 - 170g
Medium High - Star TeeBird 170g
Heavy - I switch between the Star Firebird 170g and my Star Teebird 170g

I used to use a TeeRex but I just couldn't control it like I can the Firebird and Teebird.

Tailwinds:

Sirius Orion LS 167g, Star Sidewinder 170g, Star Valkyrie 169g

If it's really heavy I use the Sidewinder it loves tailwind.

The S Plastic Element-X is just as good as the Evolution. I just like the Evolution version because it takes forever to beat it in.

It's true that nothing can replace a beat up roc, however it takes a good few months to get one so if you don't want to wait, the Element - X is a good addition.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:24 am

KRooster wrote:I'm sure the Teebird would be good as a headwind driver, but I really want a max D headwind driver (I need all the extra D I can get), and I don't think I'd be throwing that quite as far. Although I might be mistaken; maybe the Teebird would go farther in a headwind than heavy and/or more stable versions of longer drivers?


i believe the teebird is still holds the record for the second longest toss (or at least second furthest disc), but its not ideal for max golf d because it requires a bit more height.

Z crush is a great disc, at your power an newer X crush would fit the bill as well, if you go with x you would have to get heavier, but a 168-172 Z crush would be easy to throw especially into the wind.
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