Gateway vs Innova

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Re: innova

Postby Timko » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:08 am

Fritz wrote:
Furthur wrote:
twmccoy wrote:Innova any day. They make far more discs and in many more different molds than gateway. Also, gateways are hard to come by and their plastic isn't as good as innova's.


I knew it would take someone less than 10 replies to turn this into some Gateway vs. Innova thread. I thought were just trying to compare molds. Both companies have particular discs that are superior to their competitors.

Both make good discs.

There. End of the dick waving contest.


WE were this wasn't a post of who's dick is bigger and better it was a comparing of who's disc is like who...

I jsut wanted to see if My assesment was on par with what others thought about the discs.


I wasn't discussing the post, I was referring to the quoted reply that you received on it, which provided no information reguarding your question. I'm a fan of some of gateways molds (their mids and putters are in my bag). You can, in fact, see my assesment some of the molds near the top of the page. It just seems that somewhere down the road people like to turn these posts into "my discs are better than yours", and I thought this thread was going to degenerate to that point. Props for keeping on topic.
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Re: innova

Postby Fritz » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:12 am

Furthur wrote:
Fritz wrote:
Furthur wrote:
twmccoy wrote:Innova any day. They make far more discs and in many more different molds than gateway. Also, gateways are hard to come by and their plastic isn't as good as innova's.


I knew it would take someone less than 10 replies to turn this into some Gateway vs. Innova thread. I thought were just trying to compare molds. Both companies have particular discs that are superior to their competitors.

Both make good discs.

There. End of the dick waving contest.


WE were this wasn't a post of who's dick is bigger and better it was a comparing of who's disc is like who...

I jsut wanted to see if My assesment was on par with what others thought about the discs.


I wasn't discussing the post, I was referring to the quoted reply that you received on it, which provided no information reguarding your question. I'm a fan of some of gateways molds (their mids and putters are in my bag). You can, in fact, see my assesment some of the molds near the top of the page. It just seems that somewhere down the road people like to turn these posts into "my discs are better than yours", and I thought this thread was going to degenerate to that point. Props for keeping on topic.


I know man, I don't' get it why people always gotta turn posts like this into a so n so's is better then joe's. It's stupid. I'm just trying to learn the discs so that I can be a good sales person for the discs. People always want to know what flies like what so they can compare.
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Postby trogdor » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:28 am

OK, first....look at the title of the thread you started.
:oops:


Regarding comparisons, I think the more interesting questions is which molds are most dissimilar. I'll never want to have a one company bag. If you're trying to sell Gateway plastic, don't tell someone "It's just like the Innova (fill in the blanks)" If it's just like an easier to get plastic, you aren't going to make the sale. Talk about what makes it unique...(Push Spirits and Wizards and possibly Demons for those of us who fell in love with our Champ Plastic Whippets)

These are all my personal opinions:
Tee-birds have no clone
Spirits have no clone
Predators have no clone
Arrows have no clone
Quarter-Ks have no clone (in flight, mabye but not in feel.)
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:43 am

trogdor wrote:OK, first....look at the title of the thread you started.
:oops:


Regarding comparisons, I think the more interesting questions is which molds are most dissimilar. I'll never want to have a one company bag. If you're trying to sell Gateway plastic, don't tell someone "It's just like the Innova (fill in the blanks)" If it's just like an easier to get plastic, you aren't going to make the sale. Talk about what makes it unique...(Push Spirits and Wizards and possibly Demons for those of us who fell in love with our Champ Plastic Whippets)

These are all my personal opinions:
Tee-birds have no clone
Spirits have no clone
Predators have no clone
Arrows have no clone
Quarter-Ks have no clone (in flight, mabye but not in feel.)


I'm not sure about that. There are discs similar enough that you can replace a current disc in your bag without missing a step.

As for the demon, it's like a beefier gator I believe. The illusion reminded me of a firebird, but it's been a while since I've thrown it. And, I had not gotten my wraith at the time. So that may be a correct analysis.

Years ago from field testing: I concluded that a crush was like an orc, a flash like a beast. I know runs have changes. Incidentally, what is most similar to an avenger from either Innova or Gateway?
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Postby Fritz » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:53 am

See that's the problem, when someone asks What does this disc do? You need something to tell em. You can't just say well sir it flies like a Spirit. When most people ask about a disc they ask how does that disc compare to a Teebird or how does that putter compare to a Challenger? So no matter what you do you need something to compare to it.
Yes there are discs that have no comparaison. Take the Drone for instance. No one right now has a disc that is like the Drone. Gateway however has come really close to having a Drone like disc with the Demon.

Mainly Gateway doesn't make duplicate discs, none of their discs fly like one of the others. Take Innova for instance, How many of their discs are just tweaks of a previous version? A lot.

Gateway on the other hand just tweaks the disc and keeps the name. If the tweak is radically different they rename the disc to something else.

I could of picked a different name for the title yea but I figured from the way I did the body of the post, they would see it wasn't a competition but rather a comparison. Those that turned it into a Innova/Discraft is way better Gateway sucks post didn't read the initial post, they read just the title.
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Postby Amateur » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:53 am

In my hands the X Avenger and Pro Starfire to do the exact same thing with the Avenger being a tick more stable.
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Selling a Spirit

Postby trogdor » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:23 am

I see your point Fritz, but I like this last question better. "How does this disc compare to a Teebird." There's a better sale with the answer to that than the answer to "What Innova disc is this like?"

If I was selling a Spirit, I might start with "It has the stability of a Viper." But that's not doing this disc justice.

Go on to explain how fast it is.

AND

What really sets a Spirit apart from any other overstable long range (for me) is the way they handle the wind.

Preds, Firebirds, Monsters, etc. handle the wind by going out as far as arm speed can hurl them then dive to the ground before anything bad can happen. My experiences with a Spirit is that it flys in the wind. Throw this flat into a headwind and it will rise, maybe turn a touch, continue to ride the wind and come down right where you want it to.

And in that regard, It flys like well, a Spirit!
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Postby disc_golfing_fool » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:25 pm

Its funny that there are so many gateway reps here, its like a tank of pirahna!

As for comparisons or descriptions of Gateway discs, my solution has been to have DEMO discs of each mold that people can throw if they are unfamiliar with the disc.

I have made many sales of gateway plastic because I told them to throw before they buy. People like that kind of honest salesmanship.

I'm no salesman, either. I'm just trying to get gateway plastic into as many hands as possible.

Many gateway discs have no peers, therefore the only real test is to fly them.

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Postby zealot » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:43 pm

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Postby Solty » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:53 pm

disc_golfing_fool wrote:Many gateway discs have no peers, therefore the only real test is to fly them.
:D



Amen brotha'....people are haters until they field test...
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Postby Fritz » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:33 pm

mikesolt wrote:
disc_golfing_fool wrote:Many gateway discs have no peers, therefore the only real test is to fly them.
:D



Amen brotha'....people are haters until they field test...


Ya got that right. It amazes me how many peopel are all Gateway sucks, thenyou ask them have you thrown gateway before and they say no but I heard they suck. I'm like here check out my wizard putt all round with it, or I say here try out my sabre..element x etc... and they are amazed.
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gateway

Postby twmccoy » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:56 pm

Wow, you gateway lovers are a testy bunch. :? . I still think their discs are nothing special.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:17 pm

well mabey youre not anything special, and uh uh.... it takes a special guy to appreciate how special the discs are... :roll:
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Re: gateway

Postby Fritz » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:43 pm

twmccoy wrote:Wow, you gateway lovers are a testy bunch. :? . I still think their discs are nothing special.


How many of them have you thrown? considering you don't buy discs? (I'm not being mean, in saying that I just want to know what your statement of they aren't anything special comes from).
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Postby Weebl » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:54 pm

Back on topic...

If you're trying to represent some discs from gateway, invite the people to play a round with you. Let them see how the disc flies and what can be acomplished by a seasoned _______ thrower, showing the tricks of each disc (Like the spirit skipping vertically, not horizontally on short hyzer-released approaches) let them try it out maybe. Comparing is good, but the biggest thing for me is the feel of the disc in my hand and as i release it and good old intuition.
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