Should I be throwing a Sidewinder?

Golf Discs, Bags, Baskets, Videos, and other Disc Golf Related Equipment

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Should I be throwing a Sidewinder?

Postby Amateur » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:35 am

I've always thought of myself as a mid power player. Lately it doesn't seem I have the power I think I do. The Sidewinder is the longest range power 3 driver on Blake's chart.

Would I be better off throwing more stable slow discs for max D or should I try a fast understable disc? Also would I be hurting my form throwing something understable vs. stable for max D?

I'm just trying to get an idea before I do something stupid and spend too much $ on something that hurts me in the long run.
Amateur
MMMM drop your juicy 'maters in my gaping maw
User avatar
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:07 pm
Location: Western Illinois
Favorite Disc: Challenger

Postby zealot » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:01 am

just throw a sidewinder with a tinge of hyzer like a teebird and it should fly about the same but furthur (for your d range)
Image
zealot
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:49 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio
Favorite Disc: Pro Rhyno

Postby swel304 » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:05 am

Ive been wondering the same thing myself. I almost got a star sidewinder today but since it only comes in premium plastic its a bit expensive to buy for a tryout. Im hopeing I can find someone at doubles this week that has one they will let me take for a "testdrive". seems logical that It would be a good max D for me. Ive been working with an eagle which was doing ok, but then I found a dx leopard and found that as long as I have room for the "s" and a little height to work with I can outdrive everything in my bag by quite a bit with it.
swel304
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1280
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:31 am
Favorite Disc: X Buzzz

Postby zealot » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:11 am

then you are definatley in the perfect range for a sidewinder. seriously when i was throwing about 300 this one gave me 30 feet for freeeeee
Image
zealot
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:49 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio
Favorite Disc: Pro Rhyno

Postby Thatdirtykid » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:19 am

the only problem I have is with blakes chart is the way the chart combines premium and basic plastic. I know it would be alot of work to rate each mold in each plastic different, but there are discs like the buzzz, which flies similar in Z, X and D but then discs like the cyclone or avenger, which the base plastic flies much differently than the premium (discraft even changes their rating).

Then this applies to the sidewinder by its only avalible in premium plastic (the reason they arent making it in dx even though alot of people think they would like it is it would fly broken in new, and then not even be good for rollers anymore)

it dosnt take much power to throw the sidewinder long, but it honestly isnt too predictable. a disc like a lighter (165-169) x avenger should fly almost as long as a sidewinder when its new, and when you break it in it will fly better. A dx valkarie would work even better and closer in comparision to the sidewinder. A slightly broken in dx valk will fly better than a sidewinder on any line, and will definately be longer.

Sorry if I stepped on any toes, I know alot of people really do like sidewinders, and I really dont want to knock the chart, it is much better than any comany chart, and much better than any other attempts to rate multiple companies discs.
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
Thatdirtykid
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3673
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Longmont Co
Favorite Disc: z pred

Postby zealot » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:32 am

Thatdirtykid wrote:.... a disc like a lighter (165-169) x avenger should fly almost as long as a sidewinder when its new, and when you break it in it will fly better. A dx valkarie would work even better and closer in comparision to the sidewinder. A slightly broken in dx valk will fly better than a sidewinder on any line, and will definately be longer. ...


why
Image
zealot
1000 Rated Poster
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:49 pm
Location: Canton, Ohio
Favorite Disc: Pro Rhyno

Postby disc_golfing_fool » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:51 am

The answer to "why" is what is behind all of Blake's philosophy.

The SW is NOT a "true stable" disc: no rim stabilizers.
Therefore it will get more and more unpredictable as it breaks in.

Amateur,
I agree with the advice of trying a light X Avenger: a true stable disc design that flies well with medium power. Good luck. Let us know what you think if you try one.
~~~some rise, some fall, some climb to get to Terrapin~~~
~~peace.love.disc~~

OM
disc_golfing_fool
Tree Magnet
User avatar
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:34 pm
Location: CT
Favorite Disc: ROC

Postby Bradley Walker » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:04 am

[quote="disc_golfing_fool"]
The SW is NOT a "true stable" disc: no rim stabilizers.
Therefore it will get more and more unpredictable as it breaks in.
quote]

Eh... not really. The Star plastic does not appear to get real "squirrely" as it breaks in. You can also tweak it as you go. I saw several SUPER BEAT Star Wraiths at the tourney this weekend. They were all bombers.

The Star Sidewinder could turn into you "go to" driver.

Keep in mind that precession is as constant as a bead.
Bradley Walker
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:46 pm
Favorite Disc: Roc

Postby Bradley Walker » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:10 am

lock-off wrote:
Thatdirtykid wrote:.... a disc like a lighter (165-169) x avenger should fly almost as long as a sidewinder when its new, and when you break it in it will fly better. A dx valkarie would work even better and closer in comparision to the sidewinder. A slightly broken in dx valk will fly better than a sidewinder on any line, and will definately be longer. ...


why


Yah, no kidding.

Not from my field tests. A broke in DX Valk is not longer, and definitly more squirrely.
Bradley Walker
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3702
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:46 pm
Favorite Disc: Roc

sidewinder

Postby twmccoy » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:42 am

In my field testing, sidewinders continually come in at the top for distance, along with wraiths. Thrown correctly, the sidewinder will fly as far as any disc out there period. I have a champ. 174 in my bag and it is perfect for huge straight distance. In windy conditions forget it though.

If you really want to see some crazy yardage, rip a 150 sidewinder hard with a bit of hyzer and watch it glide. No other disc I've thrown glides like these.
twmccoy
Plastic Fondler
 
Posts: 2169
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Littleton, CO

Postby presidio hills » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:33 pm

i gotta say i definitely agree with dirtykid's statements about the dx valk.

in my opinion; a sidewinder's flip may or may not happen... sometimes it'll flip a lot, sometimes not at all. i don't think this is technique... since there are plenty of discs i can control the flip with, and i've witnessed tons of sidewinder throwers have the same problem. how much will it flip?

a dx valk; the flip will definitely happen and be about the same amount of flip every time... so depending on how you throw it, you can make it fade or have it hold the turn the entire flight. the fact the flip is much more predicable than a sidewinder's makes a dx valk a much more predictable disc.

taking the sidewinders out of my bag was the best move i ever did for my setup, in my opinion. at the time i just wanted a champ plastic disc i could turnover... nowadays i'd much rather throw a beat in low grade plastic disc.

the dx valk's distance record = 809'. i doubt anyone's even thrown a sidewinder 600' yet.
presidio hills
Fairway Surgeon
 
Posts: 625
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:04 pm
Location: san francisco

Postby dflaschiii » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:33 pm

I agree with everything in the last post, while reading the thread I was wondering if anyone was going to bring up the dx valk distance record.

In my opinion the only people who should be throwing sidewinders are those who are happy with thier current technique and want to rely on a disc design to give them more distance. As lockoff mentioned, the disc will give you 30 ft "for free," but in order to improve my game, I want to earn that 30 ft.

I've noticed the people in my weekly league throwing tons of sidewinders and roadrunners for distance, thier entire bags filled with champ and star plastic, and they are kind of confused when I pull out a dx gazelle and go straight at the pin while they are looking for a crazy, totally unnessecary s-curve line, hoping that thier disc will turn over at the right time. They claim they "don't have the strength" to throw a gazelle like I do (or they blame my long arms), but I don't believe them (I can see thier throwing form). They simply don't want to make the effort to improve, and choose a quick fix disc like a sidewinder instead.

The Holy Grail of my disc golf game is huge straight line glide and fade, I want to eliminate the left-right play on my discs as much as possible. In this way, the sidewinder goes against my disc golf philosophy (which has been developed a lot by this forum and site). I keep a dx valk in my bag for special lines and certain downwind/downhill shots, but other than that I keep it straight and stable (roc, gazelle, teebird, firebird). Choose a sidewinder if you play once and a while and for pure recreation, but if you want to really improve your game, keep it out of your bag.
dflaschiii
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:54 pm
Location: Reno, NV

Postby Thatdirtykid » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:45 pm

disc_golfing_fool wrote:The SW is NOT a "true stable" disc: no rim stabilizers.
Therefore it will get more and more unpredictable as it breaks in.


Avengers and Valks are not true stable either, but they do have a more predictable fade and are more stable.

Sidewidners are easy to get to turn over, but do not do so w/ the accuracy a more stable disc is capable of. a DX valk requires the same amount of power as a sidewinder to perform the same line. I always thought it was easier to do consistantly with a dx valk.
An attribute to Star and Champ plastic is they loose high speed stability before low, meaning the fade becomes less predictable, sometimes the disc will flip beyond being able to fade, others it will fade out early. A dx valk will keep some of its high speed stability but loose its fade meaning it will fly consistantly in the high speed portion of its flight, and consistantly not fade.
I used to throw sidewinders and orcs. and I cannot believe how much more accurate a couple x avengers broken in differently are.

btw presidio I know its dosnt really matter but the valk was hucked 820', and the disc that still holds second is a dx teebird. I believe the sidewinder has been tossed nearly 600', its mold really is a good disc for max d, just not golf max d, and not a max d plastic. (a good d comp disc is low speed stable highspeed understable) I believe the Z XS (aka discraft valk) is one of the only Z plastic discs to break 600' in competition.
Last edited by Thatdirtykid on Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
Thatdirtykid
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3673
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Longmont Co
Favorite Disc: z pred

Postby swel304 » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:46 pm

the dx valk's distance record = 809'. i doubt anyone's even thrown a sidewinder 600' yet.

that makes no difference to someone like me who is just trying to break 300 consitantly. If I am just going by distance records I might as well buy a bucket of wraiths and really disappoint myself. Ive had 2 dx and 1 champ valks and havent had much luck with them, maybe I should work with them some more, but as per the power requirement rateing on blakes chart the sidewinder looks more within my range. also my local course is very wooded and Im tired of destroying dx discs so quickly. I have control drivers I can throw ok, Im looking for max D for wide open long shots.
swel304
1000 Rated Poster
User avatar
 
Posts: 1280
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:31 am
Favorite Disc: X Buzzz

Postby Thatdirtykid » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:51 pm

swel304 wrote: also my local course is very wooded and Im tired of destroying dx discs so quickly.

understandable
Im looking for max D for wide open long shots.

but...?

If you want a open field max D disc you dont need to be worried about trees.
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
Thatdirtykid
Disc Whore
User avatar
 
Posts: 3673
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Longmont Co
Favorite Disc: z pred

Next

Return to Equipment

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest