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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby JR » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:14 am

How far do you throw the good voodoos you ave and the Ion weight for weight difference please? Two posts ago you already sold me this as a driving putter but the last post about the fade made me wonder how many feet does it fade from a flat lowish drive? Also how far can you throw it released flat before it starts to turn anny? If not full power how much hyzer angle in degrees you need to flip to flat at full power and how far is your average straight line throw? Thanks.

Now you've forced _forced_ me to try a Stalker and an Ion. Now boo, after getting them probably thanks :-) The same goes for revisiting a Z Buzzz.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:18 am

The ion only fades when you take the wrist snap out of the throw. I have a 166 and 173 and they both only fade more than a couple of feet when thrown flat when you throw them with almost all arm and no wrist. The disc reminds me a lot of a comet, it flies best when thrown with a slow arm speed and some good wrist snap.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby peppermack » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:26 am

Hmmm...the comet of putters...I may have to try one...I love me some sweet comet action. Now If I could get someone to trade me one!
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby Jeronimo » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:45 am

Discspeed, why do you say you don't like premium putters? I ask because I typically feel the same way and its usually because they're too shiny/slippery. With the rubber grip area on the Ion I feel like it alleviates that problem but still gives you a good feeling stiff putter.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby JR » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:50 am

Eh oh... My interest turned to semi hard on :D To link this to the beer off topic thread I'm having Stone Double Bastard Ale ATM. I read discspeeds post as not flipping any way you throw at all unless you have a cannon (like he does) and some but not a lot fade considering how little Voodoos fade. So the HSS part doesn't seem like a Comet at all. I'm interested in hearing from those that have thrown both because I'm not in the market for a flippy non fading putter driver that is the Magic. I've already got the more than usual flippy E X-out Magic from the freak flippy run. I'm gunning for a more than Wiz HSS and less than Voodoo straight goodness. Great comparisons for the Ion the Gateway putter triumvirate. You know.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby discspeed » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:11 am

JR wrote:How far do you throw the good voodoos you ave and the Ion weight for weight difference please? Two posts ago you already sold me this as a driving putter but the last post about the fade made me wonder how many feet does it fade from a flat lowish drive? Also how far can you throw it released flat before it starts to turn anny? If not full power how much hyzer angle in degrees you need to flip to flat at full power and how far is your average straight line throw? Thanks.

Now you've forced _forced_ me to try a Stalker and an Ion. Now boo, after getting them probably thanks :-) The same goes for revisiting a Z Buzzz.



I can throw a M Voodoo about 280' while trying to hit a gap. Any further and I'm throwing too hard. Even at 280' it takes a lot of height. The Ion is faster. It doesn't require as much height and probably goes 10-20' further on that range of a shot. So the Ion would go 290'-300' on the same throw the Voodoo went 280'. The Voodoo flies at about 3x the height of a Buzzz, so the Ion would be in between them heightwise.

On a flat lowish (thrown hard) drive, the Ion is not going to fade unless you throw it from hyzer, and even then its not really a fade. On a nice 200ish upshot, the Ion flies straight from flat with a 5' fade at the end. On this same throw my Voodoos don't fade and maybe even finish slighly right.

I can't exactly answer you last question, but I can say this: I was throwing the Ion for about a 280' shot in the woods. I did this about 10 times. I could not throw it flat and get it to turn until a little headwind helped out. I could control a tiny bit of anny on my release and get it to drift right and come back slightly.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby discspeed » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:15 am

Frank Delicious wrote:The ion only fades when you take the wrist snap out of the throw. I have a 166 and 173 and they both only fade more than a couple of feet when thrown flat when you throw them with almost all arm and no wrist. The disc reminds me a lot of a comet, it flies best when thrown with a slow arm speed and some good wrist snap.



I can agree somewhat, but it has more LSS for a putter than a Comet does for a mid. I'm comparing them to Voodoos, which have no LSS when broken in slightly. The release is comparable to a Comet, but then again, that's how I throw all putters. I also can rip my Ion with hyzer and push it forward, but not push the hyzer out of it's flight.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby discspeed » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:21 am

Jeronimo wrote:Discspeed, why do you say you don't like premium putters? I ask because I typically feel the same way and its usually because they're too shiny/slippery. With the rubber grip area on the Ion I feel like it alleviates that problem but still gives you a good feeling stiff putter.



The grip on premium plastic putters has never been the main issue for me. I used to have some gummy Qmegas that were very grippy, even in the winter in MI. My issue is the flight inside the circle. I think a plastic with a matte finish is slower and turns slower. Plastics with less surface friction fly squirrely for me. They fly faster, fade faster, and turn faster. They just don't hold their nose angle as well. The grip is not as good as my SS organic Voodoos. Also, by what standard does the Ion feel stiff to you? It is slightly more rigid than my HPP Voodoo, but still very flexy, even compared to an SS Voodoo. I like the way the rubber outside sticks to the chains...the disc loses spin immediately, however as I noted in my previous posts, the Ion is bouncy when it hits metal other than chains.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby discspeed » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:26 am

JR wrote:Eh oh... My interest turned to semi hard on :D To link this to the beer off topic thread I'm having Stone Double Bastard Ale ATM. I read discspeeds post as not flipping any way you throw at all unless you have a cannon (like he does) and some but not a lot fade considering how little Voodoos fade. So the HSS part doesn't seem like a Comet at all.


Actually, I don't flip heavy Z Comets at all from a flat release either, so it is kind of like a Comet. I however don't arm discs like putters and comets, I just snap them. I put all I can into the snap and I still don't flip them. If I threw them like throw a Halo, they would probably flip.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:35 am

discspeed wrote:
Frank Delicious wrote:The ion only fades when you take the wrist snap out of the throw. I have a 166 and 173 and they both only fade more than a couple of feet when thrown flat when you throw them with almost all arm and no wrist. The disc reminds me a lot of a comet, it flies best when thrown with a slow arm speed and some good wrist snap.



I can agree somewhat, but it has more LSS for a putter than a Comet does for a mid. I'm comparing them to Voodoos, which have no LSS when broken in slightly. The release is comparable to a Comet, but then again, that's how I throw all putters. I also can rip my Ion with hyzer and push it forward, but not push the hyzer out of it's flight.


I thought the LSS was pretty comparable to the comet (of course we are comparing mids and putters and we might not have the same throwing style) but I can see what you are saying. I will say that my 166 Ions remind me way more of a Magic than a Voodoo but my heavier one seems to be a cross between the Magic and Voodoo.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby discspeed » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:52 am

Frank Delicious wrote:
discspeed wrote:
Frank Delicious wrote:The ion only fades when you take the wrist snap out of the throw. I have a 166 and 173 and they both only fade more than a couple of feet when thrown flat when you throw them with almost all arm and no wrist. The disc reminds me a lot of a comet, it flies best when thrown with a slow arm speed and some good wrist snap.



I can agree somewhat, but it has more LSS for a putter than a Comet does for a mid. I'm comparing them to Voodoos, which have no LSS when broken in slightly. The release is comparable to a Comet, but then again, that's how I throw all putters. I also can rip my Ion with hyzer and push it forward, but not push the hyzer out of it's flight.


I thought the LSS was pretty comparable to the comet (of course we are comparing mids and putters and we might not have the same throwing style) but I can see what you are saying. I will say that my 166 Ions remind me way more of a Magic than a Voodoo but my heavier one seems to be a cross between the Magic and Voodoo.


Either way, they seem to have gotten the stability just about perfect for the Ion. If I could only carry a single putter disc, I would want it to be the stability of the Ion. Mine is also a little heavier than Frank's. This could make a difference.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby Jeronimo » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:55 am

discspeed wrote:The grip on premium plastic putters has never been the main issue for me. I used to have some gummy Qmegas that were very grippy, even in the winter in MI. My issue is the flight inside the circle. I think a plastic with a matte finish is slower and turns slower. Plastics with less surface friction fly squirrely for me. They fly faster, fade faster, and turn faster. They just don't hold their nose angle as well. The grip is not as good as my SS organic Voodoos. Also, by what standard does the Ion feel stiff to you? It is slightly more rigid than my HPP Voodoo, but still very flexy, even compared to an SS Voodoo. I like the way the rubber outside sticks to the chains...the disc loses spin immediately, however as I noted in my previous posts, the Ion is bouncy when it hits metal other than chains.


Take a brillo pad or some light sand paper to the top of the disc. I'd call it stiff in comparison to the juju... It's stiff enough to not deform from wrist snap, which I like. I actually might try the sanding of the flight plate.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:10 am

discspeed wrote: Mine is also a little heavier than Frank's. This could make a difference.


This is true, I really need to get a 174-175 one to mess with.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby JR » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:18 pm

Ok ions will be in my next order. I like to drive differently with putters depending on the distance. At short ranges it's finesse and often understable but max D I'm arming and the more I can arm like drivers the better. Because I'm used to giving the arm to drivers so if I can throw similarly with a putter I can get less calculations into shot planning and execution. That's why I like Rhynos, VPs which I can't arm enough (!) and Sinus AP. Sinus in that plastic ain't durable for the rough home course I have and even after breaking in to longer and less fading while being nicely HSS it's still too meat hooky for my laser preference. VP is too short and too LSS in comparison to the straighter and longer Champ/Star Rhyno that are still too LSS at this point. Maybe wear does something to fix that eventually. Pro Rhyno doesn't last here although they got straighter at the end real quick. Too bad they also got less HSS than longer straighter putters like Spikes and Pures.
So the Ion is going against a lot of recognized discs that work for many. Judging by comments so far I think I'll be in love. BTW my HSS requirements come more from treacherous and often heavy winds around here more than OAT.

So how would the Ion in heavy weights respond to arming for a 400'+ thrower (on a good day with fast light discs) hyzer requirement wise? FWIW max weight medium Wiz needs pulling back of power for me. Unless coming from 30ish degree hyzer angle where it flips to flat apexing at the lowest to reach flat at around 9' from that hyzer angle.
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Re: The Official ION Discussion Page

Postby tigel » Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:55 pm

Hey JR, I'd say I throw my 173g orange ION at about 30-40 degree hyzer and it will flip to flat. My first run 166g turns over way too easy, so just make sure you get a max weight one.

My only concern is your HSS requirements. I'm not sure how well the ION is going to do in wind. It hasn't been that windy lately, so I can't really verify in that respect if the ion will be good for ya. We have the same power, and I can say my 173g IOn has been treating me really well, especially on touch shots.
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