Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

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Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby marmoset » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:44 pm

Another experiment.
I just Sleepy-ed myself a new flat top Roc.
I started with a white DX Roc that is from a recent run. It weighed 147.6g (marked 150g) and is made out of a barely-translucent blend of waxy DX- I can barely see my fingertips through the disc when I am holding it. I describe the plastic blend as waxy because it feels waxy to the touch, not because it has bad durability. I have 3 other Rocs identical to this one and they have average durability for DX. The PLH was 0.285" high. The disc stood 0.753" tall at the highest part of the flight plate dome. The flight plate domed up to the half-circle (that connects the bird to the Innova logo) and then flattened out. That is roughly 5.125" of flatness. I assume the hotstamp process flattened out the plastic.

I Sleepy-ed the disc as he recommended except I added a small food wrapper fragment between the disc and the cookie sheet to eliminate suction. It seemed to work. I put a thick gauge cookie sheet on top of the disc (about 1 pound?) and then I put a 5 pound sack of sugar on top of that, centered above the disc.

30 minutes later I uncovered the Roc and emptied the water. The Roc was extremely flat, like from-shoulder-to-shoulder flat. Just for the fun of it I repeated the process. I noticed the Roc re-domed when I put the next batch of boiling water into it but after applying the cookie sheet and sugar sack it eventually flattened out the same as the first time. Nothing different happened so I stopped after the second run. I mean... you can't get any flatter than shoulder-to-shoulder, right? I noticed there was a tiny clover that developed by the bird's tail, about the size of a quarter and really shallow. I have no idea where that came from but it doesn't really bother me at this point.

After letting the disc thoroughly quench at room temperature (no freezers for me) the profile is still as flat as when I pulled it from underneath the cookie sheet. I imagine a really hot day might make it re-dome but I will have to wait for months before I can test that theory.

Now for the results...

I don't have the scale at my house. I will fill in that blank tomorrow.
The weight was 146.7, it is now_____. ***EDIT: it weighs 147.6 grams after the process***
The PLH was 0.285", it is now 0.305".
The flight plate dome height was 0.753", it is now 0.61".
The diameter of the flat on the dome was 5.125", it is now 7.5".

So the PLH rose .02" (7%) :!: , the overall height lowered by 0.143" (19%), and it is now almost perfectly flat ***EDIT: and it gained 0.9 grams***. I think that's some interesting stuff. I wish I could throw it but it is icing really hard right now. I wouldn't really get a good feel for it.

Now that I'm thinking about it I wish I had taken some measurements after the first process. Oh well, I might save that for a later date.

I am super interested to see if the disc absorbed any of the boiling water. If it weighs significantly more than it did before the test then I will "dry it out" by placing it in a 110°f oven for 8 hours or so. And of course I will re-weigh it after that. Who am I kidding? I am going to dry it out even if it weighs the same as before.

I hope someone else gets something out of my nerdliness.
Last edited by marmoset on Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby Jeronimo » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:51 pm

I'm eating this up.
I am dumb.

...and a drama queen.
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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby marmoset » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:57 pm

I forgot to mention that the first time I poured boiling water into my Roc I had the disc directly on the counter top. When I removed my disc I noticed I had a perfect mirror image of the Innova logo, the Roc bird, the half-circle, the whole shebang... tatooed onto my kitchen counter! I thought it was really cool but I figured I should clean it off before my wife saw it. Some scouring powder cured the counter... I'm just glad my wife didn't see it. I don't think she would think it was so cool.

Just thought I'd mention it.

Hmmmmm, what was the name of that scouring stuff I used... oh yeah, Comet. Leave it up to a Comet to clean up a Roc's mess! :lol:
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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby Frank Delicious » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:58 pm

wow, that is more than I thought the parting line would move.
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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby marmoset » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:00 pm

Frank Delicious wrote:wow, that is more than I thought the parting line would move.

I know, right?
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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby Frank Delicious » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:11 pm

I mean if someone just reads .02" it doesn't seem like a lot but where the parting line is really does seem to make a big difference.

You should write a scientific article about discs and get it peer reviewed, that would be awesome.
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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby SkaBob » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:31 pm

marmoset wrote:Leave it up to a Comet to clean up a Roc's mess! :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby Spinthrift » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:15 pm

Good stuff, Matthew. The higher parting line didn't surprise me, since there seems to be a cause/effect on dome and PLH. My assumption is the higher PL (angle of wing) and lesser dome will equate to a more stable flight.

I had something pretty remarkable happen when I used the boiling water trick to adjust the dome on a newly acquired beat-like-hell, understable DX Roc. Flight plate was unevenly clovered and slightly sunken. My goal was to even out the flight plate and leave it flat or a little sunken. When I filled it with boiling water I think the plastic slightly expanded. While still hot, I dumped it in cold water to "set" the plastic in that position. It ended up very slightly more sunken than before, with less clovering.

But here's the potentially revolutionary discovery. While handling it, I unintentionally pushed the bottom of the sunken flight plate and it popped up into a dome -- and stayed there. Push it down, it stays sunken.

I took it outside. Flight plate popped down, it was a nice understable, flip-to-flat or turnover Roc. Flight plate popped up, it was a stable, straight flyer with a touch of fade.

Holy crap. I had just discovered a method to situationally adjust the stability of a disc. On the fly.

Whoa. One disc, two flightlines. My head was spinning, felt like I was going anhyzer.

Not to overstate the case, but if this feature could be designed into a disc it could fundamentally change how we view a disc and its uses.
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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby marmoset » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:20 pm

Spinthrift wrote:Whoa. One disc, two flightlines.

Not to burst your bubble but Quest AT makes the Wildfire. It is the same concept as what you described.

That's why the GGGT Joe's flight chart has 1 entry for Wildfire up (-1 HSS, 2 LSS) and 1 entry for Wildfire down (-2 HSS, 3.5 LSS).
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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby marmoset » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:30 pm

Did anyone else notice the Wildfire pictured above says "Advanced Technologie" with no "s" at the end?
I don't think I would have posted that one if I was them.
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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby Mad Scientist » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:58 pm

marmoset wrote:Did anyone else notice the Wildfire pictured above says "Advanced Technologie" with no "s" at the end?
I don't think I would have posted that one if I was them.


I thought that was intentional.
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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby marmoset » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:38 pm

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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby Mad Scientist » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:42 pm

Ahh, well so much for that.
"I don't know who started it and I don't give a f***. The one thing I do know is that we did it harder, we did it faster, and we definitely did it with more love, baby. You can't take that away from us." - Stevo, SLC Punk
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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby Steve » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:05 pm

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Re: Experiment: flattening technique, PLH, weight, etc.

Postby rusch_bag » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:19 pm

Two questions. When you guys do this I would assume it affects the flight, is this correct? My other question is has anyone done this to a z buzzz?

edit - can someone link the original thread? I can't seem to find it for some reason.
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