The River

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Re: The River

Postby ForeverBlue232 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:00 am

discspeed wrote:but I had to use more hyzer than with the P-PD.


That's what I have experienced. Some people don't want to call it a flippy disc, but for me if I throw a teeshot anywhere close to flat, its gonna turn BIG time, and not come back.
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Re: The River

Postby Monocacy » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:07 am

The River confuses me. I have had some of my best throws with it, but I can’t figure out where it fits in the bag. At my distance the River is too stable for the understable slot, not stable enough for headwinds and flex shots, not quite what I am looking for in a distance driver, and not going to replace Gazelles as my control driver.

Blake rates the River and Eagle the same; for me the two fly very differently (probably because I don’t get the Eagle up to speed). I am quite confident throwing a DX Eagle into a headwind, but not so much with the River. The River usually holds an anny to the ground, whereas the Eagle fights back pretty hard. This makes the Eagle more useful for multi-directional shots.

For reference, I have thrown three GL Rivers in the low 160s. One was flippy-long like a Sidewinder but I lost it. The others are more stable.

For those of you who throw fairway drivers around 300’, where does the River fit (or not fit) in your bag?
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Re: The River

Postby discspeed » Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:03 am

My River is not what I'd call flippy. To me, a flippy disc is one that has considerable turn, making it useful only for a limited number of shots...My seasoned GL Fuse is flippy. I didn't have a single shot that turned and stayed turned when I was trying for a straight shot. The only time that I had to put more hyzer on it than my heavier P-PD was when I was trying to throw low laser beams. From a nice, smooth, flat shot at about 80% it would turn and rocover for a big S shot. To get it to hold a turn I had to power it a bit more. I really like it's LSS because it is prominent, but forward dominant and without a lot of lateral motion. It was enough to make sure that a shot started with hyzer would return to hyzer at the end of the flight.

I haven't thrown a ton of Eagles, and I never thrown a dx. I can say that all the ones I've thrown (old champs, newer champs, newest champs, stars) have been more stable than my River. Maybe Blake got a couple of those flat ones I've read about. The Eagles I've thrown also did not have the glide or range of the River on equal power throws. I had to throw my Eagles, they weren't finesse discs. They also didn't like to fly straight nearly as well as my River. The River, like the Fuse, has a distinct glide/range advantage over all the discs with similar length wings that came before it. Speed and stability-wise I would compare it to a Star TL, but with the glide of a Leopard.
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Re: The River

Postby NoLifeLeft » Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:06 am

Monocacy wrote:For those of you who throw fairway drivers around 300’, where does the River fit (or not fit) in your bag?

Control driver. It has an extremely broad range of useful power for me, I can throw it from a standstill mostly flat and get a good flight but it is also a forgiving (for me) hyzer flip or turnover disc at full power. It has a decent amount of turn but it is easy to keep it on a hyzer for it's full flight. I throw 171g GL's mostly, the max weights are a bit beefy for my tastes.
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Re: The River

Postby JR » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:35 am

NoLifeLeft wrote:
Monocacy wrote:For those of you who throw fairway drivers around 300’, where does the River fit (or not fit) in your bag?

Control driver. It has an extremely broad range of useful power for me, I can throw it from a standstill mostly flat and get a good flight but it is also a forgiving (for me) hyzer flip or turnover disc at full power. It has a decent amount of turn but it is easy to keep it on a hyzer for it's full flight. I throw 171g GL's mostly, the max weights are a bit beefy for my tastes.


I throw over 300' with some putters on the best rips so YMMV. For me the River needs to be finessed i can't rip it. Even from standstill it will bite back big time if i strong arm it. So it definitely is a control driver and the low power requirement means that it is controllable and versatile plus long for low powered throwers. Making it a great first driver. It's like a glidier Leopard so it is longer thus beating a long standing staple disc. That doesn't happen often. Not every year probably. Depending on the likes and needs it may not suite everyone but if one were to build a new bag at any skill and power level there are good reasons to include the River.

With that said I like Buzzz(Fuse if i wanna take a get out of trouble disc with me usually not)/Stalker/driver combo so much that the River being touchier wasn't adopted. Driver is in flux and for me and it means controllable driver plus another max D mold plus headwind long driver(Force now). At the moment PD(hoping the DGR second batch are fadeless ones), Beast, Surge SS and Valk are in contention for driver spot and Wraith/DD2 for max D. Unless going for stupid things then I'd have to pick UL Boss. The problem with drivers is that they all are great great molds.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: The River

Postby NoLifeLeft » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:04 am

I think the way someone feels about the River will directly relate to their like/dislike of the Comet.
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Re: The River

Postby Ryan C » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:28 am

I always found the River to be sort of decent at everything, but not very good at anything. Ranging it was also a little bit tricky, since at 65-75% power, it just goes straight and fades (rather hard), but any more power than that and the thing has considerable turn. So I would always have to decide if my shot was going to finish left or straight, depending on distance.

Maybe when they get seasoned they hold a nicer anhyzer line, but for me they always wanted to fight out of it, unless I put a very steep angle on it. I think I was hoping it would be more like the Fuse of fairway drivers.

The real positive I can say is that it has awesome glide for any driver. I remember playing a tournament with an Opto River in the bag, after I'd only had the thing a couple of weeks. There was a shot about 350', with only about a 12' ceiling. I parked it with the River, while the others in my group seemed like they couldn't make it too far past the 300'-325' point. The shot actually looked freaky. Just gliding really low and slow. It a good disc, with great potential, but the behavior of its flight varies so much with very similar amounts of power. Just hard to predict for me. My fiarway driver of choice remains the Cyclone. While this disc does share some of the same characteristics as the River, I've found it to be more predictable, and a lot easier to range. Plus, they always finish left.

I've always favored discs that have a very similar flight shape at a wide range of powers, such as Buzzzes and PD's.
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Re: The River

Postby JR » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:38 am

Ryan C wrote:I always found the River to be sort of decent at everything, but not very good at anything. Ranging it was also a little bit tricky, since at 65-75% power, it just goes straight and fades (rather hard), but any more power than that and the thing has considerable turn. So I would always have to decide if my shot was going to finish left or straight, depending on distance.

Maybe when they get seasoned they hold a nicer anhyzer line, but for me they always wanted to fight out of it, unless I put a very steep angle on it. I think I was hoping it would be more like the Fuse of fairway drivers.

The real positive I can say is that it has awesome glide for any driver. I remember playing a tournament with an Opto River in the bag, after I'd only had the thing a couple of weeks. There was a shot about 350', with only about a 12' ceiling. I parked it with the River, while the others in my group seemed like they couldn't make it too far past the 300'-325' point. The shot actually looked freaky. Just gliding really low and slow. It a good disc, with great potential, but the behavior of its flight varies so much with very similar amounts of power. Just hard to predict for me. My fiarway driver of choice remains the Cyclone. While this disc does share some of the same characteristics as the River, I've found it to be more predictable, and a lot easier to range. Plus, they always finish left.

I've always favored discs that have a very similar flight shape at a wide range of powers, such as Buzzzes and PD's.


I share those experiences and likes so I don't have the River in the bag.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: The River

Postby discspeed » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:12 pm

I too like versatile molds that behave similarly across a range of speeds. These are my bread and butter, they are my consistency. However, I also see the need to have more dynamic molds in my bag. I can do a lot with a Buzzz, but the Fuse does some magic for me that the Buzzz just wouldn't (that or the window to hit the kinds of shots I'm talking about is very small). I can't rip a Buzzz flat and high and have is slowly sail to the right and forward all the way to the ground. 9/10 times its going to either stall out and fade, or cut anhyzer too hard and not recover or go far enough. I would NOT want to have to use the Fuse as my main mid, or my main approach disc, despite the fact that I CAN make it do lots of lines. I have the Buzzz for that and it does a more consistent and predictable job.

I can say the same things about the PD and River. In my short time throwing a single River (2 rounds), it's clear to me that it can do some magic things that I can't do with a PD. I don't know if my River is different from some of the other posters' discs, but it is easy to get to hold an anhyzer, and it almost always comes out right before it hits the ground. Not enough fade to affect the anhyzer line, but enough fight/fade to make sure it is still a forward dominant flight. I'm probably going to be adding the River to my bag as my PD's dynamic partner for the magic when I need it. I don't ever see myself throwing it half as much as I use PDs, but those times where a PD definitely won't work, it's perfect. My River IS like the Fuse of fairway drivers. It is a yellow Opto that weighs 172 and is fairly domey.

This is kind of like the Kobe vs. Lebron debate...Kobe can explode for 30 points in a single quarter, but may go a half without hardly any stats. Lebron is steady and complete, if he's not scoring he's getting assists and playing tough D. Kobe is the dynamic one, Lebron the consistent one. If I had to choose one for my team, I would pick Lebron, but if I could have them both that would be the obvious choice.
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Re: The River

Postby mattw » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:26 pm

For me its a work in progress. The only shot that I am having problems with is shorter anhyzers that are just out of range for my mid. When I lay off on the River it doesnt hold the anhyzer line all the way to the ground. I think with practice I can get that shot down but for the time being I still have a Leopard in the bag for those shots.
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Re: The River

Postby discspeed » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:59 pm

mattw wrote:For me its a work in progress. The only shot that I am having problems with is shorter anhyzers that are just out of range for my mid. When I lay off on the River it doesnt hold the anhyzer line all the way to the ground. I think with practice I can get that shot down but for the time being I still have a Leopard in the bag for those shots.


You probably just need to get one more beat for that shot.
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Re: The River

Postby bill » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:52 pm

for a while i've been using the pd for distance and the stalker/river for shorter stuff, stalker to finish to the left and river to the right. sadly that f'n stalker has gotten straight as hell and hardly the fade i hoped it would keep. the river however is a peach to me. with snap it's got the most wonderful left to right turn without any flip whatsoever. even at less power i love to throw it on tight fairways low and left against the line and watch it turn right and fade forward-left.

i'll drop my stalker before my river. and no leopard i've thrown glides as effortlessly left to right to straight. really i've had star leopards that were pigs compared to my opto river.
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Re: The River

Postby JR » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:04 am

discspeed wrote:I too like versatile molds that behave similarly across a range of speeds. These are my bread and butter, they are my consistency. However, I also see the need to have more dynamic molds in my bag. I can do a lot with a Buzzz, but the Fuse does some magic for me that the Buzzz just wouldn't (that or the window to hit the kinds of shots I'm talking about is very small). I can't rip a Buzzz flat and high and have is slowly sail to the right and forward all the way to the ground. 9/10 times its going to either stall out and fade, or cut anhyzer too hard and not recover or go far enough. I would NOT want to have to use the Fuse as my main mid, or my main approach disc, despite the fact that I CAN make it do lots of lines. I have the Buzzz for that and it does a more consistent and predictable job.

I can say the same things about the PD and River. In my short time throwing a single River (2 rounds), it's clear to me that it can do some magic things that I can't do with a PD. I don't know if my River is different from some of the other posters' discs, but it is easy to get to hold an anhyzer, and it almost always comes out right before it hits the ground. Not enough fade to affect the anhyzer line, but enough fight/fade to make sure it is still a forward dominant flight. I'm probably going to be adding the River to my bag as my PD's dynamic partner for the magic when I need it. I don't ever see myself throwing it half as much as I use PDs, but those times where a PD definitely won't work, it's perfect. My River IS like the Fuse of fairway drivers. It is a yellow Opto that weighs 172 and is fairly domey.

This is kind of like the Kobe vs. Lebron debate...Kobe can explode for 30 points in a single quarter, but may go a half without hardly any stats. Lebron is steady and complete, if he's not scoring he's getting assists and playing tough D. Kobe is the dynamic one, Lebron the consistent one. If I had to choose one for my team, I would pick Lebron, but if I could have them both that would be the obvious choice.


I agree that Fuse/Comet type of discs are great compliments to evenly stable discs and not that great alone. The same goes for Rivers backed up by something sturdier able to take more power and still maintain a large window of error. I think the other guys mean that Rivers can't maintain a little right, a little more right, moderately right, just a little more right and way right annies at distances where you would throw Buzzzes or Fuses. Not everyone has your power to get to say 250'+ on anny with the above control with mids. And thus they need to use a faster disc such as the River. And the River can't pull off that many fine adjustments to how far right they end up if one can't use unlimited height and have an unlimited amount of distance where to start turning and an unlimited amount of turning steepness angles available to them on the holes they need to tackle. River is just too HSS and LSS combined with fast and gliding that some of the above requirements fail inevitably. So it is a situational disc at shorter ranges.

Adding more D to the River brings it to a much more versatile zone with the height, range at which it begins turning right and how quickly it turns to the right while still being able to be landed in small increments from straight to far right. That's a sentence phew!
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: The River

Postby discspeed » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:05 am

In the short time I've been throwing the River it seems very natural beside the PD range-wise, which is why I like it. I agree with JR in that if you do not push your mids 300'+ then you probably want something slower (eagle/cyclone/gazelle) that is easier to shape lines with and have in multiple stages of wear.

Of all the discs I've thrown in the past, the River reminds me of a faster XL with more glide that is easier to throw. Yesterday I was playing with JimW and I ripped on hole 18 at Cliff Stephens on a high anhyzer that held the line for about 7/8 of the flight before pulling up and finishing straight ahead. It went about 400', which is the best I've done on that crazy high/wide anhyzer shot. Faster discs always pull out too early. With that kind of glide I can't wait to rip my River in some tailwinds, and I wish FL had some elevation because I imagine the River would rock on downhill shots like no other.
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Re: The River

Postby Jeronimo » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:53 am

discspeed wrote:...I imagine the River would rock on downhill shots like no other.


Ooooooh boy does it ever.
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