Westside King - The speed 14 driver

[SirRaph]

I beginning to see a trend here.

How long before someone releases a speed 20 disc, with a wing so wide that there's actually nothing to grip on to...

[JR]

Bumping this thread. I tried a 154 Air VIP King that doesn't droop in the outside edge and has the tallest dome i could find in the discs they had in the store. Rear wind only. The Dome is lower by a little vs the tallest domed normal VIP Kings and much taller than the flat flippy Kings. I saw slightly flatter and drooping edged ones at the store so normal manufacturing variation from the plant not worse than with any of their normal plastics and molds. I should compare Air VIP to a VIP side by side but the Air version seems to have very little height under the outside edge and from memory looks different to VIP in that dimension.

This disc flips like a Bolt so pretty high on the useless scale for power throwers. I can't gauge the needed initial hyzer angle accurately because it is so deep and unusual for me not near familiar angles for me. A full power very high just guessing 35'+ throw needs something like 35-40 degrees of hyzer and it still flips over a couple of degrees. in the rear wind almost 400' but drop the apex a little and 55-60 degrees is needed. So every degree of height aiming is changing the hyzer angle more than double. Bah. Easy rollers easy hyzer flip stand still distance needing about 15-20 degrees of angle going to 250'. Slow x step roughly 25-30 degrees of hyzer initially to about 370-380'. That surprised me. Very little power input and so much distance. I don't have exact measurements of the field i was on. Easy stand still sidearm hyzer flips. But miss the hyzer a little and you've got a very large s-curve so this is not an easy disc to place. I'm not sure who this disc suits because i haven't seen low powered throwers throw it. I tossed it 200' FH and it flipped. It is not easy to throw this disc consistently with a lot of power.

[discspeed]

Latitude has got it all wrong...Taking mass out of the wing makes discs fly like shit. Their process is a dead end as far as I'm concerned. I've got three bubble Bosses...Same weight, same dome, same PLH. The only difference is that two have a flightplate full of bubbles and a fairly normal wing (barely any visible bubbles), and the other has no bubbles in the flightplate and a very bubbly wing (though less messed up than 99% of the ones Innova is sending out currently). The one with the bubbly flightplate flies awesome...It likes to lock onto a line and fly very straight with a late fade. I have two and they are the longest discs I've ever thrown. The other one flies awful...It won't hold a line to save it's life. Thrown flat it doesn't flip and fades out early. Thrown with a bit of anny it seems to take it right into the ground. I can't even get it out as far as my max weight Swords.

MVP's trademark aside, gyroscopics really are important for disc flight, and these as well as Innova's new bubble discs spit in the face of this and at the same time prove how important getting weight on the outside is.

[iacas]

Latitude has got it all wrong...Taking mass out of the wing makes discs fly like shit. Their process is a dead end as far as I'm concerned. I've got three bubble Bosses...Same weight, same dome, same PLH.

Aren't they doing this less so than other companies like Innova with their Blizzard blends? There are only bubbles on the inside edge of the Opto Airs and, yes, admittedly little to no bubbles on the flight plate but the bulk of the mass remains in the wing. Blizzard discs have bubbles throughout. Yes, you get them in the flight plate too but you get them throughout the entire rim as well. Right?

So it wouldn't surprise me if the weight was farther out in an Opto Air disc than a similar Blizzard.

and these as well as Innova's new bubble discs spit in the face of this and at the same time prove how important getting weight on the outside is.

I have only one Blizzard - a Wraith - are you saying that recent Blizzard discs are like what I'm describing (bubbles everywhere) while older ones had bubbles just in the flight plates?

Everything I just said above in paragraphs 1 and 2 are based on the experience with the Wraith I have as well as the fact that I've seen others complain about how easily their Blizzards will chip and chunk on the edges because of the bubbles (and how Opto Air or VIP Air was designed not to have bubbles on the outer edges of the rim to avoid such issues).

[discspeed]

Latitude has got it all wrong...Taking mass out of the wing makes discs fly like shit. Their process is a dead end as far as I'm concerned. I've got three bubble Bosses...Same weight, same dome, same PLH.

Aren't they doing this less so than other companies like Innova with their Blizzard blends? There are only bubbles on the inside edge of the Opto Airs and, yes, admittedly little to no bubbles on the flight plate but the bulk of the mass remains in the wing. Blizzard discs have bubbles throughout. Yes, you get them in the flight plate too but you get them throughout the entire rim as well. Right?

So it wouldn't surprise me if the weight was farther out in an Opto Air disc than a similar Blizzard.

and these as well as Innova's new bubble discs spit in the face of this and at the same time prove how important getting weight on the outside is.

I have only one Blizzard - a Wraith - are you saying that recent Blizzard discs are like what I'm describing (bubbles everywhere) while older ones had bubbles just in the flight plates?

Everything I just said above in paragraphs 1 and 2 are based on the experience with the Wraith I have as well as the fact that I've seen others complain about how easily their Blizzards will chip and chunk on the edges because of the bubbles (and how Opto Air or VIP Air was designed not to have bubbles on the outer edges of the rim to avoid such issues).

I'm sure Opto Air is done better than Blizzard, and those discs will be better for low power players than a lot of their current options. However I think ALL of us could benefit from lighter discs as long as they have the same shape and mass distribution as their heavier brethren. Early Blizzard discs had bubbles all over (every disc was different as well), but you could definitely find ones with a lot of bubbles in the flight plate. The ones coming from Innova now have NO bubbles in the flightplate (I just got like 40 for my tournament, and none have a single bubble in the flightplate).

I think lightweight is the future of the sport. If we can get down into the 150s and 160s without sacrificing mass in the wing then I think we will be onto something. Air in the plastic is not the final solution, and that I would be willing to bet money on.

[JR]

The bubbles in my Air VIP King are way way smaller than the bubbles in the Blizzards and they are evenly distributed on the flight plate and the wing without being on the surface. Blizzards with uneven surface from the bubbles are slightly grippier than smooth surfaced Blizzards and Champions.