Axis of Evil

[Marauder]

I've managed to get a couple 178's and a 180 new Axis. Looking forward to giving them some air time this weekend. Also have a new Vector. Looking forward to seeing how more different she compares to my 1st run. I'll be grabbing a few more of the new Proton Ion's here shortly. I'm sure others have said it.... MVP has the most professional looking discs out there. When I'm introducing the sport to new players.. it's always the MVP disc's that I break out. Looking forward to giving these a fair shake.

[jubuttib]

Tried the chunky green one today. The damage isn't too bad, but noticeable.

EDIT: Also, it's definitely confirmed, the C-MD2 and Axis aren't competing for the same slot. The way they power up, power down and handle wind is just so different. I love having them both and if you told me one had to go it'd be really hard to choose which.

[Crosseyed0811]

I love my Axis so far, and after the first round with the vector I'm loving them together.

[discspeed]

After not getting to play much this week due to a sick child, I just got in a long practice round and some great final testing of my Axis (I'm going with Leopard's spelling). I think I'm a bit beyond my "disc crush" phase at this point and I'm boiling down exactly how the Axis is going to fit into my game/bag. Today I was using my original green 179, a new green 179, and a red/orange 178. All have slight domes.

My original seems to have broken in a little over the last couple of weeks (which has implications on the effect of flash vs. other factors on the initial break-in of premium plastic discs). This is most noticeable on powered down shots which were fading out earlier with the new green Axis. I also noticed that at high speeds my original Axis was flipping up/over more than the new green one. I agree with Jubuttib that the Axis in general does not take power as well as the CMD2 or even the Buzzz. I would notice more difference in the Buzzz's distance when I threw it hard vs. harder than I do with the Axis. When I give it a smooth 85% it goes just about as far as it's going to go when I rip it 100% on the same line. To get more D it needs more height rather than more muscle. It will also handle a little wind fairly well, but I would not trust it on gusty days to hold a line and not flip at the upper half of it's range. My broken in Axis also powers down awesome for approaches. I've never had a disc that held low lines so well regardless of hyzer/flat/anny angle, and this has been very useful in my game already, negotiating ceilings too low for my Ion. It is a disc that does exactly what you tell it to, for better or for worse. If you turn it more than intended there is little in terms of forgiveness as it will hold to the ground.

I also had some interesting results with the Axis in different wind directions today...I was throwing a long anny shot with a right to left wind that was slightly from the rear. I first threw my Fuse, which in normal conditions is much less stable than my Axis. Due to the wind it did not flip as much as I intended from it's slight anhyzer release, rather it just kind of pushed straight on it's angle and dropped. I threw the Axis the same way and it held it's slight anny line much truer rather than getting pushed by the wind and faded out later as well.

The red/orange 178 Axis I have it noticeable more stable/overstable than the new green one I was comparing it to. It is still nowhere near a Vector, but I could not flip it from flat and it was hooking up slightly earlier on the fade. It still holds slight anny angles like the other Axis, rather than fighting them like the Vector does.

In conclusion, I really feel that the Axis is a new flavor of mid. People can compare it to anything they want, but it really does not fly like a Buzzz, Roc, Comet, or any other mid that I've spent much time with on the course. It's useful for a variety of things and I think it is by far MVP's most widely marketable disc yet. I'm not sure it will be as big with power players as the Roc or Buzzz, but I think for the vast majority of players it may work better than those for midrange drives and approaches.

[JR]

I had a windy round and a half after work today and the Axis didn't work that well, which in seaside area makes it a situational disc Clear Ion worked better in every other wind direction except headwinds, where both got raped. The Ion was way better in winds compared to older Ions.

[zj1002]

I agree with Jubuttib that the Axis in general does not take power as well as the CMD2 or even the Buzzz. I would notice more difference in the Buzzz's distance when I threw it hard vs. harder than I do with the Axis. When I give it a smooth 85% it goes just about as far as it's going to go when I rip it 100% on the same line. To get more D it needs more height rather than more muscle.

This is why it doesn't work for me. I put all my power into a hit point I am aiming at. The axis does weird things when I do that. The way it spins just doesn't work for someone throwing with high power all the time. It is great for developing players or those at the 350-400ft level. I had to throw at about 65% to see the flight I expected(which can be good).

[Crosseyed0811]

I also had some interesting results with the Axis in different wind directions today...I was throwing a long anny shot with a right to left wind that was slightly from the rear. I first threw my Fuse, which in normal conditions is much less stable than my Axis. Due to the wind it did not flip as much as I intended from it's slight anhyzer release, rather it just kind of pushed straight on it's angle and dropped. I threw the Axis the same way and it held it's slight anny line much truer rather than getting pushed by the wind and faded out later as well.

I threw my Axis on a 255 ft hole at a course yesterday. The tee is under a tree canopy and there are trees down the right side of the fairway. The wind was coming from the right to left maybe slightly headwind as well. I threw the Axis (179 Green, only one round on it so not broken in) on a low anny line, figured after it cleared the trees on the right the wind would push it out of the anny and wind up close to the hole. Not a full rip for a 255ft hole of course. To my surprise it held the anny all the way similar to what you said. I would actually go so far as to say once it cleared the tree cover on the right it started moving MORE to the right. Shot wound up 30 to 40 ft to the right of the hole and about 10 ft past it.

I also threw it on the "long" hole of the course (297 ft) into the headwind. Gave it a little hyzer and it flipped up to flat and turned just a little and went a pretty good ways. Much better results than I expected as I even looked to my wife before I threw it and said this isn't going to work but I want to see it for myself. Now the wind also seemed to die down a decent amount right as I started my runup so maybe it was a fluke.

Edit: Just wanted to add that on the 255 ft hole that the Axis annyed way out of, I flicked my new Vector and sat it under the basket. Axis/Vector combo is here to stay for me...

[discspeed]

I agree with Jubuttib that the Axis in general does not take power as well as the CMD2 or even the Buzzz. I would notice more difference in the Buzzz's distance when I threw it hard vs. harder than I do with the Axis. When I give it a smooth 85% it goes just about as far as it's going to go when I rip it 100% on the same line. To get more D it needs more height rather than more muscle.

This is why it doesn't work for me. I put all my power into a hit point I am aiming at. The axis does weird things when I do that. The way it spins just doesn't work for someone throwing with high power all the time. It is great for developing players or those at the 350-400ft level. I had to throw at about 65% to see the flight I expected(which can be good).

I have to admit I've yet to see anyone with more power than me throw the Axis in person, though I think Mike C has got a little on me and I didn't see anything weird in his videos. I suspect it has something to do with your personal throwing style, but I'll definitely try to get some big arms to throw my Axis to see how it works for them. I do know that I can't blast line drives with it quite like I did with the Buzzz, but that's shots 350'+. How did it behave for you?

[zj1002]

Yeah I dont have super clean form. I have my bad days still. Those were just initial field tests. I'll be throwing it again for sure just to retest my results

[zj1002]

So yeah I threw them again. I found a 179g Orange Axis that seemed to fly like my QMS. It was the only one that gave me predictable flight. It was the flattest of the bunch.

I put the Axis up against the Ibex and my QMS. I think I just prefer the Ibex because it has similar movement to the QMS which I know about as well as you(discspeed) know the Buzz. The Axis keeps on the line it is powered on which can be bad for the way I throw. The QMS and Ibex are more predictable for how I throw. However all three discs thrown side by side were generating almost exactly the same shots. The reason I don't like the Axis is because I rely on using my power to pop a disc to flat or turnover. So there are times that my hit point can be a little off which I think the Axis doesn't like. If I try to pop an Axis up, and my release is too far right, the disc will flip and move over right. A QMS or Ibex on the same type of shot will adjust and move forward rather than stay on the right moving line.

[jubuttib]

@zj: That's why I still have the C-MD2 in my bag. The Axis is absolutely fantastic on finesse shots (and discspeed said that it's a new type of mid: It's a slightly improved version of the orange FR P-MD2's ) but I really like having a disc I can rip without worrying about it.

[jubuttib]

I had a windy round and a half after work today and the Axis didn't work that well, which in seaside area makes it a situational disc Clear Ion worked better in every other wind direction except headwinds, where both got raped. The Ion was way better in winds compared to older Ions.

If you don't like your Axis/ION I could take them off your hands. =)

[Fightingthetide]

It seems pretty clear that the Axis isn't a do-it-all neutral mid, but still an excellent one nonetheless. That's all fine and good, but when you guys are saying that you can't put all of your power into the Axis, how much power are you talking? If I get about 250' of power on my Buzzz on a solid drive, would the Axis be sufficient enough to drop my Buzzz altogether? I guess the only way to tell is to actually buy one, but all of my local shops are sold out (and I need to give it a few weeks before I spend any more $$$ on discs )

[Crosseyed0811]

It seems pretty clear that the Axis isn't a do-it-all neutral mid, but still an excellent one nonetheless. That's all fine and good, but when you guys are saying that you can't put all of your power into the Axis, how much power are you talking? If I get about 250' of power on my Buzzz on a solid drive, would the Axis be sufficient enough to drop my Buzzz altogether? I guess the only way to tell is to actually buy one, but all of my local shops are sold out (and I need to give it a few weeks before I spend any more $$$ on discs )

I throw mine between 250-300 and haven't noticed any issues of overpowering it yet. Oh and if you haven't looked, Alpine has a better MVP selection than PIAS, and I think about $2 cheaper per disc...

[JR]

@zj: That's why I still have the C-MD2 in my bag. The Axis is absolutely fantastic on finesse shots (and discspeed said that it's a new type of mid: It's a slightly improved version of the orange FR P-MD2's ) but I really like having a disc I can rip without worrying about it.

Axis and Ion are more sensitive to the release angle than most discs if you measure how far off sideways you land per a degree of miss in the hyzer angle. No Jub you can't get mine unless you pay me so much that i can get a new undamaged clear Ion and the postages from me to you and vendors to me

Fightingthetide i think that is about the limit of the Axis in having a little margin of error in power generation combined with hyzer angle misses. Actually that is because going beyond 250' starts to create hyzer flip for me and underpowered shots won't flip at least as much that it would cause a lot of miss sideways. It's higher power that starts to multiply flip and sideways miss. I think the Axis would work better for you as an overall mid than the guys that can put it to 330' or more. That was my longest toss in the first session and at that distance i had to put hyzer in and any wrist roll no matter how minimal was magnified in the flip. What's worse is that that always left me with a uncertainty of which angle i should use for which power.

I need to learn the disc better and knowing the sensitivity to wrist rolls keep the power down for consistency. The same for the Ion and on course yesterday that sure created mental pressure. All i had in my head don't overpower, don't overpower, don't overpower and that lead to some fluffed shots. What's funny is that i also had fluffed putts until i noticed that i wasn't accelerating hard enough in the end of the throw. Man the brain can get frazzled quick, when you're tired. I was going 12 hours straight playing right after work. In any case more acquainting is necessary and the approach to driving needs a change from rip it hard to more finessing and that requires a new way to range the shots. In the short term change the way you play is likely to hurt, but it could bring benefits later so i will explore this route more. I had started that path earlier this year so it ain't such a big step, but i'm not comfortable with it yet. In the winds Ridge for straight shots (broken in) gives way more safety margin for user error in powering up and winds vs the Ion. The same goes for Axis vs Buzzz.