Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

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Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby harkerj » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:11 am

(Posted this in the Technique forum but then thought it may be better here, sorry!)

My disc golf game has become the same as my ball golf game. No matter what disc/club I use, the result is the same. Same basic distance, same basic flight line, etc. And, just like I did with ball golf, I was determined to find the disc/club that would change all this for me. I have long since retired my bag of clubs - that game just escapes me - but I do not want to ditch my bag of discs just yet. I know it's not the discs, it's the jackass throwing them.

So I took the advice of several on this forum, and I'm setting aside my Valks, my Monarch, my Archons, my Sidewinder, and my Roadrunner until I learn how to throw my TL and my new Eagle. (For background info, all of those discs were Champ plastics, in the 167-172 range, and I could throw all of them consistently 280-300 with an occasional 320 mixed in. Flight lines mostly straight-to-fade left at the end, sometimes some early right turn and then flexing back left, sometimes turning over and never coming back, and of course more than my fair share of grip locks hard to the right. And, if it matters, I also throw Buzzes for my midrange control shots, a San Marino Roc for "finesse" long approaches, and a new Soft Focus putter which I LOVE!))

Previoulsy, my Star TL (167 I think) was my moderate-to-low speed start-it-straight-and-let-it-hyzer-out disc. Only used on dogleg left holes, or to hook around obstacles.

The DX Eagle I bought yesterday is 165g.

I was very pleased to find that I could throw both the TL and the Eagle pretty flat and pretty straight out to about the same distance as my drivers, the Eagle actually might have gone further. So, as was predicted by several on this forum, my speed 7 discs are going as far as my speed 9, 10, and 11 discs. (And the other day I outdrove all my drivers with a borrowed 175 Star Teebird into a stiff headwind.) So again: it's not the discs that fail, it is me.

So my question is, what should I be able to accomplish with my Eagle? What will it show me about my technique? What might I learn from this disc? And, how will I know when it is time to either a) buy a new Eagle (perhaps different weight or plastic?), or b) go back to my Valks, etc?
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby Frank Delicious » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:35 am

What should you accomplish with a disc is a tricky question to answer. You can accomplish a lot of things with one disc depending on how you manipulate it. I use eagles for a lot of shots under 350' and it is my main driver.

What will you learn from it? Well assuming you don't beat it up too fast, you will learn disc wear and how discs slowly change their flight pattern over time due to wear. You will also learn how to manipulate a disc as it beats it.

Buy a new eagle when your old one is beat to hell. Test throw valks every now and then and when you are putting them a good 50' past the eagles, put them back in the bag next to the eagles/TL
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby Wordgie » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:27 am

If you're hitting the Valk to 300, I'd have to say keep working it. The Eagle is a great disc and is easy to work, but in the long run the Valk will be your D disc until you grow into higher speed stuff.

I had a tough time with the TeeBird until I got the hang of my Eagle. Then after losing my Eagle, I was forced to get better with the 'Bird. I wasn't satisfied with the length on my flex shots so I stepped up to the TL. I consider that one of my better disc purchases.

You should be able to do anything with the Eagle and it's a great disc to learn with. I'd say more field work trying turnovers, hyper flips and sidearm. I never could get the same results sidearm with the Eagle as I could with the XL and Sidewinder, but it's supposed to be good for them.

This coming from a newb with about the same stats as you, not a pro, so take it for what it's worth.
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby Frank Delicious » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:50 am

I am literally a super pro so you should listen to me. I should have added that to the previous comment.
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby plex » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:19 pm

well the eagle is a low speed wraith in theory.

Im a Right Hand - Back Hander

I throw Eagles a lot (Probably 80% of the time) and i use them for shaping long hyzer lines or straight lasers that i want to end with a left fade.

If you can throw the eagle on a flat, level, straight line for at least 250' and then the fade to the left at the end for another 50', this will prove that you are on the right track getting enough snap and holding the disc at the right angle/height (form) in order to generate a good throw.

If you end up enjoying that eagle.. STICK with it. I have not found another disc that is as consistent or accurate as an eagle.

the best thing you can do is find a disc that works for you and never give it up.. keep working with it until your forced to get better form in order to throw that disc farther, more accurately, and consistently.

its not about buying every kind of disc to find one you can throw, you need to pick one and stick to it, change your form, not your disc :)

once you understand that disc, and can control the flight of it, you will be amazed how easy it becomes to start moving on to other discs from there.
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby mark12b » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:41 pm

Great disc, now try some line shaping exercises: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=595
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby JR » Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:18 pm

Attitude adjustment is in place right after throwing the Eagle a lot more :-) See 300' consistently with an Eagle means that you are doing a lot of thing ok to fine already. The Eagle is one of the less nose up angle sensitive drivers out there and since you throw the Valk the same that hints at a form issue because the Valk is a longer disc with more hurting per each degree of nose up attitude. So the lesson is that you should definitely train nose angles with the Valk and the minute you get it to fly nose and rear equidistant from the ground it should fly farther than the Eagle. I don't agree with the 50' more D with the Valk than the Eagle comment because even if you threw them the same distance the Valk should fly a different and a lower line. If you throw the Valk too high (Eagle needs more height for optimal distance) the Valk being faster starts to slow down too early and fades out losing distance potential so dropping the height two feet at a time should tell you if that is the issue. So i'd search for nose down advice. I've written about it almost each week for the last month. A video of you form with the Valk would help us confirm if it is nose up.

One thing to realize is that to get some consistency throwing only flat shots needs around 3000-5000 throws and getting the rudimentaries right with also hyzers and annies takes 10000 overall shots and any more finesse is 15000-20000 tosses and to put the throws into memory needs more than 100000 repetitions in most activities. When we are talking about the accuracy needed for DG.One degree off in any angle of any axis in the disc can mean 30' off of the target.

My advice is to keep at this great sport because you're not doing bad at all. This place can give you a skewed view of how people can throw as do the top players. I don't think that even with current discs 2 % of players reach 415'. Besides Eagles vary from 310-380' flying for a 415' tosser. Man the latest Star Eagle i got and donated was a beefcake.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby Frank Delicious » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Those numbers are more for a mastery of the shot, not the rudimentary skills needed to throw the shot with some proficiency.
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby Steve » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:28 pm

Throw your eagle at 75% power and squeeze it tight instead of letting it go and it should go 350'. If not try something else but that's the easiest way i know to explain how to throw right.
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby JR » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:30 pm

Frank Delicious wrote:Those numbers are more for a mastery of the shot, not the rudimentary skills needed to throw the shot with some proficiency.


The hundreds of thousands are needed for mastery or finesse of the shot. Rudimentaries need a few thousands of shots to develop at least if you don't know the physics of the throw and get a leg up by getting instruction. Years ago Blake wrote about 10000 throws needed to have some skills in hyzer, flat and anny shots. A few months ago he mentioned hundreds of thousands of throws for ingraining into memory. Sure you can have some finesse with fewer shots but to polish skills to the highest levels requires more attempts.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby Frank Delicious » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:29 pm

JR wrote: Rudimentaries need a few thousands of shots to develop at least if you don't know the physics of the throw and get a leg up by getting instruction.

Sure you can have some finesse with fewer shots but to polish skills to the highest levels requires more attempts.


Is the 10000 needed for rudimentary skills or polished skills?

Anyway, you can be proficient at a throw in less than that. I probably hadn't throw a straight shot 10000 times until like my 4th year of playing but I still was playing well in Int tourneys before that.
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby JR » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:18 am

With help people should be fine in the rudimentaries of hyzer, flat and anny at 10000 and polishing finesse consistently to the highest level takes a lot of time and throws. With help i'm sure people in good shape and being accustomed to using their body should have a good deal of finesse on any line but not elite level yet.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby keltik » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:01 pm

just throw the damn thing!
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby Steve » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:30 pm

keltik wrote:just throw the damn thing!

10,000 times :D
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Re: Bought a DX Eagle... now what?

Postby JR » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:44 pm

Preferably more :-D But learning is not much an equipment issue although switching too often does retard development some. Skill development :-)
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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