Innova Tern

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Re: Innova Tern

Postby BentElbow11 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:11 pm

No problem. Maybe your friend will buy one and then hand it over to you, lol.
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:21 pm

BentElbow11 wrote:No problem. Maybe your friend will buy one and then hand it over to you, lol.


Knowing him he's probably got his eye on one lol
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby BentElbow11 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:47 pm

PMantle will tell you the Renegade is too understable. It depends on your form and how you throw them. I'm hyzer-flipping my Lucid Renegade into a very straight flight with minimal fade. Very consistent. A flat release will get some turn with a late fade back towards center. Anhyzer release will get some long anhyzers that will pan out at the end.

The Tern needs a lot more power than the narrower rimmed Renegade, in my experience. Because of that it will seem more stable, the Champ Tern anyway. But some of that is "speed stable". You don't have to muscle the Renegade. Like any Lat 64 disc, it likes clean form, letting the incredible glide do the work for you.

Renegades bomb! And while the flight may be different, when you get out there, you'll see the Renegade right there with the Tern on distance. Go Lucid, and go heavier.
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby PMantle » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:33 am

BentElbow11 wrote:PMantle will tell you the Renegade is too understable.
Not only would I not say that, the statement itself makes no sense. Too understable for what?

I have a lot of time with both molds, and they are really not similar. Renegades are easily as understable as their numbers. They are easy to turn. Champ Terns are more overstable than their numbers. Renegades compare more closely to Archons in flight despite the goofy shape of the Archon. Terns are longer than both. Don't get me wrong-Renagades are fine discs, and probably my second favorite driver ever, but they do what they do, and are very consistent across weights and plastics. That makes it hard to use different discs for different winds, and they are not very good on shots requiring a left finish.
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby BentElbow11 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:14 am

I thought you were down on the Renegade because you thought it was "way understable" compared to the Tern, and that you're not throwing them anymore for that reason.(see previous posts)

I'll say it again, the Renegade is NOT as understable as the Tern. My guess is you're not getting the Tern up to its cruising speed and it's flying more stable for you. The Renegade has a narrower rim and is easier to get up to speed. It's also possible that you're having to torque over the Tern to get decent flight, and throwing the Renegade the same way will make it appear more understable for you. Try a clean slight hyzer-flat release with the Renegade and watch what happens.

Keep in mind, the Tern is rated at -3,2, and the Renegade at -1.5, 2.5...FWIW. 'Inbounds' has the Tern at -52%, 46%, and the Renegade at -36%, 58%.

The Tern reminds me a lot of the Bolt...same rim width at 2.3cm, same shallower rim at 1.1cm, both high speed understable.

Well, if you're looking for a wide spectrum of stability from the same mold in different plastics, that's a tall order, IMO. The differences are usually subtle. And premium plastic isn't going to beat in much at all.

I'm not sure what you mean by "different winds". Do you mean cross-winds, swirling winds, headwinds? In any case, even the most stable Tern or Renegade isn't going to be good in windy conditions. You should have a designated OS driver for that.
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:14 pm

I'll chime in a bit on this.

I have 4 Terns in 3 molds. Champion(-2,2).G-Star(-3,2) and Star(-4,2) so not all Terns fly the same. Champion is most stable and reminds me of a Valkyrie on Steroids plus some crazy workout powder lol. G-Star is really good at S-Shots and can flat out bomb on hyzerflips. The Star Tern is just seriously understable,would be good for slower arm speed,but you still need to get it up so speed to get it's distance potential. So even though it's the same disc it flies completely different in different plastics. I feel that's a good thing though. You will still have that same feel but will have it doing something different.

My Champion flies the farthest for me and the G-star(still learning it) is getting pretty close to it.

I also pretty much throw my Terns with a slight hyzer angle. Just throw it the same way you would a Valkyrie is what I tell myself.

My Windy day driver is always going to be a PD,unless it's a tailwind then I'm reaching for my Terns.
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby BentElbow11 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:56 pm

Sounds about right, based on my experience with the champ Tern. But I remember it having a lot of lateral movement, like a Katana.

So, we're talking about Valkyrie-like stability(champ) to very understable(Star).
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:27 pm

BentElbow11 wrote:Sounds about right, based on my experience with the champ Tern. But I remember it having a lot of lateral movement, like a Katana.

So, we're talking about Valkyrie-like stability(champ) to very understable(Star).


Yeah that is right man. If you can get it up to cruising speed the stability is just like that. It takes a little bit to get use to but a Tern can be just as workable as a Valkyrie when up to cruising speed. :wink:
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby BentElbow11 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:47 pm

I think the Discraft Crank is supposed to be Tern-like...maybe a little straighter, according to reviews. I haven't thrown one.

The Tern's a neat disc that can bomb, no doubt.
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby PMantle » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:59 am

BentElbow11 wrote:I thought you were down on the Renegade because you thought it was "way understable" compared to the Tern, and that you're not throwing them anymore for that reason.(see previous posts)

I'll say it again, the Renegade is NOT as understable as the Tern. My guess is you're not getting the Tern up to its cruising speed and it's flying more stable for you. The Renegade has a narrower rim and is easier to get up to speed. It's also possible that you're having to torque over the Tern to get decent flight, and throwing the Renegade the same way will make it appear more understable for you. Try a clean slight hyzer-flat release with the Renegade and watch what happens.

Keep in mind, the Tern is rated at -3,2, and the Renegade at -1.5, 2.5...FWIW. 'Inbounds' has the Tern at -52%, 46%, and the Renegade at -36%, 58%.

The Tern reminds me a lot of the Bolt...same rim width at 2.3cm, same shallower rim at 1.1cm, both high speed understable.

Well, if you're looking for a wide spectrum of stability from the same mold in different plastics, that's a tall order, IMO. The differences are usually subtle. And premium plastic isn't going to beat in much at all.

I disagree with everything above. Renegades are a good bit more understable than champ terns. In Bounds does not have a flight for all three plastics. They appear to be using the numbers from the Star which is more understable than Renegades. Hell, even GStar at -3 is more stable than all of my Renegades. If the Tern reminds you of a Bolt, then you are doing something seriously wrong. Oh, and your speculation re; "up to speed does not wash since I found the Bolt(faster than Tern) unusably flippy. Maybe you have just gotten freak Champ Terns? Wait, do you even throw Champ Terns?
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby BentElbow11 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:43 am

I'm just trying to figure it out, you make the Tern sound like a Destroyer and the Renegade like a Roadrunner. Ain't happening.

It's possible that 'Inbounds' numbers are for the Star Tern. But 'Inbounds' numbers are usually put out when a disc is first released, and that would have been the champ Tern.

No way -3 is more stable than any Renegade! On what planet?

Absolutely, the Tern reminds me of a Bolt, I've thrown both...together. Don't choose to believe me?...look at both mfgrs descriptions, the numbers, and user reviews.

Regarding my experience with champ Terns, as I've said, I had 2 pre-production star stamped champ Terns from when the Tern was first released. I realize they're less understable than Star terns, but the champ Tern is still an understable driver. Innova says so on its site, 'Inbounds' says so, the majority of user reviews say so, and that's been my experience too.

I think you just like the Tern and don't like the Renegade, and have somehow convinced yourself that the Tern is a much more stable disc. Or, it could be you're dealing with a "speed stable" issue...which is the most likely explanation, IMO.

Anyway, enjoy your Terns.
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby PMantle » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:00 am

Funny you say that. Champ terns are easily as stable as pro Destroyers.

I can tell you for certain that Inbounds #s do not reflect how the Champs fly. They do reflect how star ones fly. remember, even Innova gives the Stars different #s, so this isn't run of the mill difference.

You say -3 is not more stable than a renegade. Well, that's just an assigned number. I can tell you for a fact that my GStar Tern is more stable than any of the three Renegades I own.

No, i don't believe you, just as I don't believe any numbers from the Trilogy companies. Have you thrown a King? :lol: Bolts turn easily. Champs do not. Scan any long Tern thread and count the postrs saying "More stable than numbers". There's lots of that.


I think you just like the Tern and don't like the Renegade, and have somehow convinced yourself that the Tern is a much more stable disc. Or, it could be you're dealing with a "speed stable" issue...which is the most likely explanation, IMO.


I've said it already, but I'll say it again-Renegades are my second favorite driver ever. if Terns did not exist, I'd carry at least two, but then I'd have to find something else a bit more stable. Not what that would be right now. Trespass most likely. The convinced myself bullshit was not called for. I've not been an ass about this yet. No reason for you to do that. And speed stable makes no sense given the fact that my Bolt turns like a Nuke SS.
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby BentElbow11 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:26 am

Look, they're both stable-understable drivers. The Tern does require more speed to fly true to its numbers. These are facts.

From Innova's website: Like the name, this disc has natural turn. Similar to the Archon, the Tern is a fast slightly understable disc that is designed for long shot shaping throws.

They also refer to the Tern as an "out of the box roller".

DD describes the Renegade much the same way.

Having thrown both(Champ vs Lucid) I think the Renegade is the less understable of the two. But easier to get up to speed. So, unless you're at about 400ish distance, the Tern may seem more stable than a Renegade.

Bolts are understable...the same goes for Nuke SS, Crank, and Tern. These are all similar understable high speed drivers, with the Nuke having an unusually wide rim at 2.6cm.

Now, I don't know what point you're trying to make. Are you ashamed to admit your favorite driver is an understable one, or what?
Last edited by BentElbow11 on Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby PMantle » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:34 am

Yeah...well...I don't agree. Besides, you're talking about the Tern as if it's one disc. It's three. Not unlike the XL with a different rating for every single plastic.
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Re: Innova Tern

Postby BentElbow11 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:38 am

Look, any Innova driver in champ plastic is more stable than Pro, Star, or DX. Innova has even recently changed the numbers on the champ Boss, Katana, Vulcan, etc. to reflect this. Comprende?
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