Need a Tunnel Mid

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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby JR » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:28 am

I have been a Buzz z flat top high plh well concave wing fan since the first run. In the winter flx for tackiness and in headwinds beefy ti or glo z. I agree with what Mark wrote in his previous post and have trained to do just that. I believe in keeping it simple. Believe it. Nerding it out has a place. It is called anywhere but on the tee or while throwing. Because imo a laser is the easiest shot planning wise as long as you have the skills and suitable discs for the winds it is only a matter of execution if you succeed or not. It might sound like a lot but it will come with practice and high enough hss for safety margin makes learning and throwing easier by a mile. Hence Buzzes of the beefier to z kind. But a Neutron Tangent is a faster Buzz and equally worthy of bagging as a Buzz of faster and longer kind. It grips similarly. It is slick though but luckily flx Buzz is so close to it that they handle the tunnel mid duty beautifully together.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:30 am

The Tangent should be slower and shorter than a Buzzz, by design. Narrower rim, putter leading edge. It may seem faster due to less glide, but I can't get them out quite as far as a Buzzz. That's when I go with the Axis, a true Buzzz counterpart. The Tangent really seems like a faster, less floaty putter hybrid to me.

A Buzzz will fade. You can minimize the fade by subtle release angle adjustment, but it's designed to have some fade. It would not be my choice for a truly straight tunnel shot, start to finish, because to get a reasonably straight finish it has to be turned over slightly and allowed to work its way back at the end. Flat Z Buzzz comes closest to a straight flight though.

Aurora MS, Mako/Mako3, and Tangent for dead straight flight.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby PMantle » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:17 am

BentElbow11 wrote:

A Buzzz will fade. You can minimize the fade by subtle release angle adjustment, but it's designed to have some fade. It would not be my choice for a truly straight tunnel shot, start to finish, because to get a reasonably straight finish it has to be turned over slightly and allowed to work its way back at the end. Flat Z Buzzz comes closest to a straight flight though.


This is why I am not understanding the Buzzz recs. No Buzzz I've ever seen will fly down a tunnel, then land there. You're now in the woods faced with some kind of flick or overhead. Buzzz SS maybe, but I have zero experience with those.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:42 am

PMantle wrote:
BentElbow11 wrote:

A Buzzz will fade. You can minimize the fade by subtle release angle adjustment, but it's designed to have some fade. It would not be my choice for a truly straight tunnel shot, start to finish, because to get a reasonably straight finish it has to be turned over slightly and allowed to work its way back at the end. Flat Z Buzzz comes closest to a straight flight though.


This is why I am not understanding the Buzzz recs. No Buzzz I've ever seen will fly down a tunnel, then land there. You're now in the woods faced with some kind of flick or overhead. Buzzz SS maybe, but I have zero experience with those.


Buzzz is hugely popular, which explains it. Yes, they will fade a little as they slow down. A Buzzz SS would be the better choice for a tunnel shot with a straight finish. Z Buzzz SS is much like an Opto Fuse, but straighter, and it can take more power than the Fuse.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby PMantle » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:06 am

Our new woods holes have three almost dead straight tunnels, and I'm still holding tryouts. Looking like I need: a straighter Leo than the one I have, as it fades out at the end like a Buzzz, and then I need to figure out the right anny to keep my Meteor going left without going to ground.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby Mark Ellis » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:33 pm

PMantle wrote:
BentElbow11 wrote:

A Buzzz will fade. You can minimize the fade by subtle release angle adjustment, but it's designed to have some fade. It would not be my choice for a truly straight tunnel shot, start to finish, because to get a reasonably straight finish it has to be turned over slightly and allowed to work its way back at the end. Flat Z Buzzz comes closest to a straight flight though.


This is why I am not understanding the Buzzz recs. No Buzzz I've ever seen will fly down a tunnel, then land there. You're now in the woods faced with some kind of flick or overhead. Buzzz SS maybe, but I have zero experience with those.


You are not understanding it only because you haven't seen it in action. I have been on many holes where everyone in the group parked the basket with a Z Buzzz. Hey, a Buzzz convention!!

This is why I cycle Buzzzes. My most beat up Buzzz will fly dead nuts straight (no fade at all) at 150'. If I want the same line at 200' I disc up to the next Buzzz. At 230' I disc up to the next Buzzz. At 250' to 260' I go to the strongest Buzzz. Discs fly differently at different speeds. You need to learn then memorize your discs and their tendencies.

Other factors can lead me to disc up and still throw perfectly straight like headwinds or uphill shots.

But there are tunnels where you want the shot to start out straight then hyzer or anhyzer at the end. So my most beat up Buzzz which is dead nuts flat at 150' will do a gentle anny if pushed to 200'. You need to have the discs, the knowledge and the touch to make the adjustments.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby PMantle » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:04 pm

I am not a cycler.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:46 pm

Yeah, I just go with a different mold to augment, rather than deal with constantly changing base plastic or waiting forever for Elite Z to break in to that extent. There's so much close overlap between mid molds now that this is a no-brainer, IMO. Probably in the minority though...
Last edited by BentElbow11 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:51 pm

Mark Ellis wrote:
PMantle wrote:
BentElbow11 wrote:

A Buzzz will fade. You can minimize the fade by subtle release angle adjustment, but it's designed to have some fade. It would not be my choice for a truly straight tunnel shot, start to finish, because to get a reasonably straight finish it has to be turned over slightly and allowed to work its way back at the end. Flat Z Buzzz comes closest to a straight flight though.


This is why I am not understanding the Buzzz recs. No Buzzz I've ever seen will fly down a tunnel, then land there. You're now in the woods faced with some kind of flick or overhead. Buzzz SS maybe, but I have zero experience with those.


You are not understanding it only because you haven't seen it in action. I have been on many holes where everyone in the group parked the basket with a Z Buzzz. Hey, a Buzzz convention!!

This is why I cycle Buzzzes. My most beat up Buzzz will fly dead nuts straight (no fade at all) at 150'. If I want the same line at 200' I disc up to the next Buzzz. At 230' I disc up to the next Buzzz. At 250' to 260' I go to the strongest Buzzz. Discs fly differently at different speeds. You need to learn then memorize your discs and their tendencies.

Other factors can lead me to disc up and still throw perfectly straight like headwinds or uphill shots.

But there are tunnels where you want the shot to start out straight then hyzer or anhyzer at the end. So my most beat up Buzzz which is dead nuts flat at 150' will do a gentle anny if pushed to 200'. You need to have the discs, the knowledge and the touch to make the adjustments.


"I have been on many holes where everyone in the group parked the basket with a Z Buzzz. Hey, a Buzzz convention!!"


Was that during a Discraft instructional session? :wink:
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby iacas » Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:02 pm

PMantle wrote:I am not a cycler.

Nor am I. :)

Cycling strikes me as the "old school" way of doing things. Today, with all the molds and the better plastics, cycling seems to be decreasing in frequency.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:00 pm

Cycling always seemed like more of a 'security blanket' thing to me. Want to only throw one mold for whatever reason(like the grip, don't want to learn a new disc, superstitious, etc). Why? Touring Pro's have do it because they're confined to one brand and their very limited molds, especially mids.

The Buzzz is now only one of many excellent mids, and I would place it no higher than middle of the pack at this stage.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:13 pm

Why not push the Z Buzzz SS for that dead straight 150-200' tunnel shot, instead of a D or X Buzzz in x,y,z stage of wear, which is highly subjective anyway?

Eh, Mark? And it's a Discraft disc!
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby JR » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:54 pm

I must have a funky Tangent as well but the difference is just a few feet. It is thin so it goes fast but at my power it gides well and fades so late and so little that it picks up distance where a Buzz would normally fade if Z and not so low as to limit the distance. The Axis is longer and Coyote and Squall even more so.

Naturally speed and spin have a bearing on which disc is longer for any given player with any given apex height. Sure a beefy Z Buzz will fade at 300' in calm conditions when it is given height. I don't think it is a good idea to throw high in a tunnel or a tight fairway with unlimited height. The lower you throw any disc the less time it has to tilt to a large hyzer angle at the end of the flight. The more you pass the cruise speed of the disc the later it will start fading. A medium to high power player has enough HSS in the Buzzes of stronger kinds to have security against own mistakes to a degree and fairly much against changing winds. Throw a Buzz to 300' power low and it will not start fading becuase it is at above cruising speed when it hits the ground. Naturally on harder and uneven surfaces it will skip often. The good thing about it is that the skip is mostly forward because the disc can land flat.

Dial the power down on a beefy Buzz and it will fade even with head high throws. Add a lot of spin and it will fade a little later and less. So it is clearly a matter of YMMV and getting the combo of height, speed, spin and nose angle correct with the proper Buzz stability to the shot. Really the same goes for any disc on any line anyhow.

I am not a proponent of cycling discs if you play on a course that chews up or slices up discs like ones with glass shards and hard rocks. If you lose discs often like on water holes cycling is not good either. It is nice to have a disc that does not change over the years that you can trust. Buzzes have changed and become good once more for a few years in a row too but that is rare in the industry but luckily it happens with other molds too. For the above reasons it is good to have good Buzzes that fly well out of the box.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby BentElbow11 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:20 pm

JR wrote:I must have a funky Tangent as well but the difference is just a few feet. It is thin so it goes fast but at my power it gides well and fades so late and so little that it picks up distance where a Buzz would normally fade if Z and not so low as to limit the distance. The Axis is longer and Coyote and Squall even more so.

Naturally speed and spin have a bearing on which disc is longer for any given player with any given apex height. Sure a beefy Z Buzz will fade at 300' in calm conditions when it is given height. I don't think it is a good idea to throw high in a tunnel or a tight fairway with unlimited height. The lower you throw any disc the less time it has to tilt to a large hyzer angle at the end of the flight. The more you pass the cruise speed of the disc the later it will start fading. A medium to high power player has enough HSS in the Buzzes of stronger kinds to have security against own mistakes to a degree and fairly much against changing winds. Throw a Buzz to 300' power low and it will not start fading becuase it is at above cruising speed when it hits the ground. Naturally on harder and uneven surfaces it will skip often. The good thing about it is that the skip is mostly forward because the disc can land flat.

Dial the power down on a beefy Buzz and it will fade even with head high throws. Add a lot of spin and it will fade a little later and less. So it is clearly a matter of YMMV and getting the combo of height, speed, spin and nose angle correct with the proper Buzz stability to the shot. Really the same goes for any disc on any line anyhow.

I am not a proponent of cycling discs if you play on a course that chews up or slices up discs like ones with glass shards and hard rocks. If you lose discs often like on water holes cycling is not good either. It is nice to have a disc that does not change over the years that you can trust. Buzzes have changed and become good once more for a few years in a row too but that is rare in the industry but luckily it happens with other molds too. For the above reasons it is good to have good Buzzes that fly well out of the box.


It is thin, but look at the putter style edge. One of the reasons for the Tangent's superb controllability is it's lack of speed.

You know, instead of trying to compensate this way and that way to get Buzzz of choice NOT to fade, why not throw a midrange that doesn't fade like those stated above in this thread? Square peg into round hole logic going on here. I realize you're just commenting objectively on the 'Buzzz is the best' statements, but we KNOW there are midrange discs that can accomplish that tunnel shot better.
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Re: Need a Tunnel Mid

Postby PMantle » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:21 am

What about the Zombee?
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