Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

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Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby Stevie.Ray » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Hi, I started disc golfing last summer and I'm still probably not very good. My first driver was an Innova Orc DX and it was ok, but I've been struggling with it this summer. I throw a right handed forehand, and when I throw with the wind, the Orc is beautiful. However, when I'm throwing into the wind, or there is a wind from the right to left, the disk turns over so badly to the left I have absolutely no control over it. Yesterday I threw into the wind and the disk turned so hard I ended up much further from the basket than I started (it was pretty windy).
Anyways, I'm thinking about getting a new disc. Like I said I throw a right handed forehand, and because I played ball all my life, I throw pretty far relative to other beginners. I'm really looking for something that won't turn over in the wind and will be fairly straight and go a long ways. I was thinking about upgrading to an Innova Destroyer, Excaliber, Boss, or Dominator, but I'm not exactly sure which would be best.

Also, the turn on my Orc is much worse than it was last summer, and I'm curious how much the cuts along the edge of disc affect the flight of the disc. Can it have a significant impact that makes the disc virtually unusable?
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:41 pm

I'm more of a backhand thrower but my Forehands are getting to be pretty good now that I worked with it more.

Distance Forehand Driver is a PD(Freak) by Discmania. It's got some sneaky long distance and does excellent in a headwind.I can Also Forehand a Beast by Innova,but it's no good in a headwind,it's more for Tailwinds. For Fairway Shots I use a Rival by Legacy,it's pretty similar to a Teebird and both are good in a headwind. For Midrange shots I use a Truth by Dynamic Discs. It's ok in a headwind,but man does it do well for forehands. If you want to go the Putter route a Zone by Discraft or a Suspect by Dynamic discs are great for Headwinds.

This is what I use and what I like.
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby BentElbow11 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:33 pm

Stevie.Ray wrote:Hi, I started disc golfing last summer and I'm still probably not very good. My first driver was an Innova Orc DX and it was ok, but I've been struggling with it this summer. I throw a right handed forehand, and when I throw with the wind, the Orc is beautiful. However, when I'm throwing into the wind, or there is a wind from the right to left, the disk turns over so badly to the left I have absolutely no control over it. Yesterday I threw into the wind and the disk turned so hard I ended up much further from the basket than I started (it was pretty windy).
Anyways, I'm thinking about getting a new disc. Like I said I throw a right handed forehand, and because I played ball all my life, I throw pretty far relative to other beginners. I'm really looking for something that won't turn over in the wind and will be fairly straight and go a long ways. I was thinking about upgrading to an Innova Destroyer, Excaliber, Boss, or Dominator, but I'm not exactly sure which would be best.

Also, the turn on my Orc is much worse than it was last summer, and I'm curious how much the cuts along the edge of disc affect the flight of the disc. Can it have a significant impact that makes the disc virtually unusable?


It's a DX Orc, so it's lost stability...and Pro is only marginally better. Impacts, cuts and dents along the rim, all that will make it much less stable than it was, and a DX Orc isn't that stable to begin with. Destroyer or Wraith are good sidearm drivers, also a Crush or Surge from Discraft. Excalibur could fade out too quick for you. Boss in champion and star can be on the overstable side too.

Whatever driver you decide on, get it in Champion/Star or Elite Z/ ESP, and you'll be okay for the long haul. Cheap base plastic will just result in the same thing that happened with your Orc.
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby twmccoy » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:39 pm

If you want to play a lot and want a disc that will remain consistent over many, many throws you're going to need something better than DX plastic. I'd recommend either a champion Orc or a champion Wraith. Similar stability, but the wraith is a tad faster with better glide.

I can never recommend DX plastic to anyone. It goes bad too quickly and starts flipping all over the place.
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby BentElbow11 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:47 pm

Yeah, wanna screw up your form? Throw DX. You wind up compensating more and more for disappearing stability in DX discs, and then when you throw a disc in legit plastic, you wonder what's going on.

I throw a couple DX Sidewinders strictly for warmup at a field before moving onto my other drivers, and they're an adventure every toss. After I get loose, 4-6 drives, they're put aside for the duration. Used to do it with champ Roadrunners, but they're no longer with me.
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby ELItheICEman » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:44 am

Don't trash on DX too much. It has its uses. OP, as long as you understand what your DX orc will do (and when to use it), it's not a bad disc. Throwing it with a tailwind seems to go well, so keep it around for that. But as far as throwing into a headwind or fighting crosswinds, it may indeed be time for a new disc. If you can find an Orc in better plastic, that might be your best bet since you're already familiar with the mold.
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby BentElbow11 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:47 am

I don't know, a couple tree hits or hard landings, and the stuff is instantly worthless. Good for putters though...
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby ELItheICEman » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:34 am

Whether a disc is worthless is up to the person throwing it. That's all I'm saying.
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby BentElbow11 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:18 am

Worthless as compared to what it was like new, before it got trashed after 1 round. Anyway, I agree that it's all in the eye of the beholder.
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby JTdisc » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:16 pm

As it gets used, a disc starts to beat in or become seasoned. This makes it flippier (more understable) over time. DX plastic and other baseline plastics tend to beat in faster. This explains why your Orc doesn't fly like it used to.

An Innova Starfire in Champion plastic would be more overstable than your Orc. It should go just about as far and work well in a headwind. For really strong winds you could try an Innova Champion Firebird.

"An Innova Destroyer could work for you as well but it could be a little "too much disc", but you never know until you throw one.
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby UncleBrother2001 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:41 pm

Since we are onto DX I'll give my take on uses.

Gentle Hyzerflips,Getting out of trouble and rollers and some Tomahawks are really what a DX driver is good for. I'm not trashing it,just coming from experience with the plastic. I carry a DX Beast in the Bag just for this.


Back to the OP. I wasn't thinking last night when I posted my long crap post. :lol: What you need is a Star Orc or a Champion Orc. Both of these will hold up for you for a long time. Oh and plus there is a G-Star Orc now. Should be able to get some good rips with that plastic due to the grip.
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby Stevie.Ray » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:17 pm

Hey guys, thanks for all your help. Appears that you guys think that the plastic was the problem, and I would probably agree with you. That disc took a beating as it was a magnet for trees and roads.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Unfortunately, the city I'm from does not have the greatest of selections. We only have Innova and a few Discmania discs. I ended up getting the Champion Destroyer as the guy at the store said it was a pretty popular disc.

I finally got to take it out today and try it out, and for the first few holes I finally truly understood what it mean to be "over-stable" or "too much disc". I wasn't throwing very hard, and the disc was fading like crazy. I had to really start throwing it hard and snapping my wrist to get it to go straight, and eventually I started getting much better control over it. And, thankfully, I threw a few really good shots when throwing into a head wind and a cross wind.

However, our course is pretty short, and I ended up overthrowing several of the holes. I'll probably have to get a slower disc (maybe a champion Orc) for the shorter holes. And, of course, I need a lot of practice to continue to get better.

But, the best news is I got a hole-in-one on the 16th hole, so I think I'm going to enjoy this disc.
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby BentElbow11 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:39 pm

An ace with a champ Destroyer? Nice!

How short are the holes on this "short course"? Reason I ask is because you may want to disc down further than an Orc. General rule of thumb is to throw the slowest disc that will reach your target, including midrange discs and putters. The reason is better control and accuracy.
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby andrew » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:47 pm

Responding to the above post- I think the mental game has to be considered in this rule of thumb. In other words, what has better control and accuracy, throwing a mid-range at 100% worried about it reaching the hole or a fairway at 50% knowing you could blow way past it?

I get and agree with your point though and realize I am taking it out of context.
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Re: Abandoning the Orc. Need help choosing new disc.

Postby BentElbow11 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:35 pm

Right, my comments were aimed at a Destroyer and Orc on a "short course".

And, sure, you don't want to be overthrowing slower discs either. I don't think there's as much difference in range between a midrange and fairway driver, as you mentioned though. I mean, if you're going to blow way past the hole, you gotta disc down. Or take a lot off a fast disc, and why would you want to do that?...the thing crashing in there and skipping 50 ft past the basket.

Slower is better for control, accuracy, and placement. I don't think there's any doubt about that. If you make a habit out of using putters on approach shots, you'll notice how they tend to drop straight down near the basket and stick. They have very little skip, if any.
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