Wraith vs Illusion vs whatever Discraft has vs others

[asimo]

What is the best ultra-high speed driver?

Which one is actually fastest?

Would you ever use a disc like these for anything but wide open distance?

Is there ever gonna be a point to having a disc like one of these and something like an Orc in the same bag or is that overlap?

[TexasOutlaw]

According to others, the avenger is the closest to a wraith that Discraft has. I do not agree. The wraith is a much longer disc.

With the wraith, you want to make it turn over because it comes back for huge distance. My avenger (at least my beat ones) do not always come back.

I have not found a Discraft equivalent (which may be fine as I don't find many course used for the wraith).

[garublador]

Stabilitywise, I find the Z Avenger is pretty close to the Wraith and almost as long. I've only found there to be a 10'-20' difference between the two (~5%). The X Avenger, on the other hand, is quite a bit different.

[Thatdirtykid]

The spectra is comparable speed/distance wise, but is easier to throw (and has as comparable glide as the pro wraith, in z plastic).

The avenger in my book is most similar to a starfire-x or f, whichever mold it was that was the most overstable. In my opinion was the best mold. I love how SLs fly new, but not worn, I still havent thrown an X avenger in a worn state, however can see a worn avenger (at that sweetspot where it wears slower) would fly similar to an SL, I dont think I could compare any Avenger to any wraith.

[asimo]

Did you guys read my questions or just start posting about Avengers... Oh wait, I guess I can see the answer to that myself.

Anyway, I would love to see what you guys think about my actual questions.

What is the best ultra-high speed driver?

Which one is actually fastest?

Would you ever use a disc like these for anything but wide open distance?

Is there ever gonna be a point to having a disc like one of these and something like an Orc in the same bag or is that overlap?

[garublador]

Did you guys read my questions or just start posting about Avengers... Oh wait, I guess I can see the answer to that myself.

Anyway, I would love to see what you guys think about my actual questions.

What is the best ultra-high speed driver?

Which one is actually fastest?

Would you ever use a disc like these for anything but wide open distance?

Is there ever gonna be a point to having a disc like one of these and something like an Orc in the same bag or is that overlap?

So do your questions only apply to the Illusion, Wraith and how they fit in with the Orc? Since we apparently aren't allowed to talk about other discs, here is my answer to those questions:

1) It depends on what you're looking for. I find the Pro Wraith to be the longest, the Illusion to be the most overstable and the Champion Wraith to be somewhere inbetween.

2) I don't know. They're all very similar speedwise.

3) I use them for long hyzers sometimes. I think there are better choices for headwinds, though and none of them are all that straight or controllable for me.

4) I think it would be overlap. I don't think the distance difference between an Illusion or Wraith and an Orc is enough to warrant both.

Throwing the Avenger into the mix (you seemed to be questioning which Discraft discs would fit in there, but when that was talked about you snapped at us) would probably affect my answers, though.

[asimo]

Trying to keep this thread focused on my four questions.

Of course the Avenger is in the mix but it is not an Avenger thread. It is a thread about all ultra-high-speed drivers.

Thanks all.

PS Garublador, answer the questions as though the Avenger was in the mix.

[Blake_T]

What is the best ultra-high speed driver?

depends on what you call "best" as well as what you classify "ultra-high speed."

Which one is actually fastest?

order of speed:
1) gds illusion
2) discraft venom
3) innova wraith
4) innova starfire
5) millennium orion
6) discraft flick
7) discraft flash
innova orc
9) discraft crush

Would you ever use a disc like these for anything but wide open distance?

yes, but have to keep in mind the faster the disc, the bigger the kick.

Is there ever gonna be a point to having a disc like one of these and something like an Orc in the same bag or is that overlap?

usually overlap, but that is based more on stability than on speed.

[asimo]

Good answers Blake.

Maybe a better way to phrase my question about the "best", would be to say, which of the fastest drivers is most useful and why?

[twmccoy]

According to others, the avenger is the closest to a wraith that Discraft has. I do not agree. The wraith is a much longer disc.

With the wraith, you want to make it turn over because it comes back for huge distance. My avenger (at least my beat ones) do not always come back.

I have not found a Discraft equivalent (which may be fine as I don't find many course used for the wraith).

I agree with all of this. I find the wraith a little more overstable and a hell of a lot faster and longer than an avenger. Speed and distancewise, the closest thing discraft has to a wraith is the spectra. That said, the spectra is way less stable.
As for the illusion, it is about as fast as a wraith but doesn't glide quite as well and is a tad bit more overstable. Yes, I often carry a flash or orc along with my wraiths because the Orc is a tad shorter and a little more predictable. I use it for holes I don't want to overshoot with the wraith. IMO the best ultra speed driver is the wraith. I simply get longer shots with it than any other disc period.

[Thatdirtykid]

the high speed disc I use the most often is the wraith also. I perfer the CFR, Its not as long as the pro, but its more consistant and predictable. I am considering trying the pro wraiths out again, but it may be a short while...

The illusion is faster than I can handle, I can get the CFR Wraith to flatten out of a hyzer and turn just enough for some added D, yet I have to throw the illusion with hyzer to get similar results. I havent thrown a worn illusion, but I imagine it would fly more similar to the cfr wraith.

and for my avenger talk in my previous post, it was more me disagreeing that the avenger is not very similar to the wraith

[Jwt4412]

Wraith vs Illusion vs whatever Discraft has vs others

"...Whatever Discraft vs others"

I don't have a dog in this fight, but title appeared to welcome talk about Discraft Avengers as a "Whatever" and Aerobie Epics for that matter as one of the "others"...

I found the responses by all to be interesting.

[mothrows]

Venom is the fastest that I've thrown, but the wraith is the fastest and longest that I've thrown. Neither one is my primary driver though.

[Thatdirtykid]

nothing that fast should be a primary driver, especially as stable as the venom and illusion are (again mabey they could be after a bit of wear), but they are still too fast to use for much other than big hyzers you need to lawn dart and drives using 95-100% of your power (which is really rare...)

[presidio hills]

i'm tripping out reading this thread.

i've been throwing the illusion for a month or so now and think it really isn't that overstable. i have a 169 in the S plastic and really think its comparison in stability is close to a champion beast (easy to flip, lots of turn, will probably fade). i usually only have about 300' of consistent golf d (with a pro starfire, dx eagle) but can get the illusion past that easily (if thrown right i'm hitting 350' ). it flips easily then glides through its turn and fades very late. it's awsome for big D if you have enough room for the flip (it does not hold a straight line)... i also like it for low straight shots. this disc can be thrown very low to the ground with less power to go quite straight. it's also great for rollers (disc is cruisin' when it hits the ground). amazing disc! i believe it's WAY better than a CFR wraith.