Roc vs. Wizard

[Aaron_D]

I am a huge fan of both, but have trouble deciding which one to throw on a given shot. I can throw them both about the same distance with the Roc flying on a lower line drive for any given distance...eg. I have to throw the wizard higher to get the same D. I just find myself staring into my bag wondering which one to throw on midrange shots. Is there anything concrete that tells you guys which one to throw for a given shot?

I love them both too much, I want to throw them both!

[Aaron_D]

also, Blake...do you throw stable midrange Rocs or multi-purpose Rocs?

[roadkill]

I'm surprised that you throw them the same distance. I throw a roc farther with less effort than the wizard.

For me I use a wizard 1-240' and use the roc 240-320'. I can thow a wizard up to about 315' but I try not to throw harder than 80%. So I'd rather throw a roc at 70% power than a wizard at 90% power.

I think a roc is better for turnover shots too. If you get a roc beat just right it will turn late in its flight, whereas I've found wizards will turn (too) early.

[Blake_T]

i have similar results with rocs and wizards. in the 200-300' range, i have to impart the same power on each to get the same carry, just need more height under the wizard. they really don't separate until like the 320+ range.

when i choose...
it's a matter of how hard i want to throw, how well i'm throwing, how high i want it to go, how much fade i can handle, etc.

if i want a 220' tunnel throw i'll pop a roc like 7' high.
if i want a 150' low throw i'll throw a roc like 4' high.

downside with a roc is that under 150', you are prone to overthrowing.

odd thing is, i'm more apt to flip a roc over by accident than a wizard.

i can say on longer courses though i end up throwing rocs more just due to psychological reasons.

[Aaron_D]

true.

I also had a question about your recommendation of the z crush for a headwind driver. you say in the thread about your bag that it suffers the achilles heel of not having stabilizers...but you recommend it as a headwind driver. did you mean z pred?

[Blake_T]

the crush will manage into a 10-15 mph headwind (they can be more/less stable depending upon the run), but they aren't nearly as high speed stable as something like a firebird, pred, x-clone, banshee, etc.

[Aaron_D]

and as far as the type of dx Rocs you throw?

[Blake_T]

i throw flatter ones.

i have a stash of stable midrange ones, but not all of the multi-purpose are poppy top (dark blue and red ones are often flat).

i also throw some 9-11x kc's.

have a couple of beat ontarios/san marinos i throw sometimes.

it doesn't really matter to me that much. if it's sufficiently beat it can be any type.

[garublador]

I have the same problem, but I use an Element-X instead of a Roc. I tend to use Wizards when I have a smaller landing zone (especally if there is danger to the left or behind the target) and a Element-X when I have a low ceiling or a slight headwind. There are a lot of times when I'm not sure what to do, though.

If you're playing casually, especally if you're alone, then throw both and see what happens. Eventually you'll start figuring out which disc is better for which shot.

[TexasOutlaw]

I would think the only factor is ceiling and distance. Throw the wizard for shorter shots (so that you don't over throw it) and the roc for longer shots or when you have a low ceiling.

Blake, I have a San Marino 175 g roc, is this what you use for turn overs?

[Aaron_D]

Well since I can throw them both roughly the same distance on a similiar line...the choice isnt as easy as "throw the wizard for shorter shots". Anyway, Blake you answered my question about as good as it can be answered...thanks.

[Blake_T]

the relative differences in flight speeds will dictate that below a certain height a roc will carry farther than a wizard simply because it penetrates further before gravity sucks it to the ground.

imo, that is one of the strengths of the roc and a distinct advantage of it over a buzzz.

there is pretty much a set length that a roc can travel for a given apex, and a wizard has that as well. knowing the differences is the key to differentiating lengths between the two.

[trogdor]

Is there anything concrete that tells you guys which one to throw for a given shot?

Not too concrete, but here's some criteria.

Regarding distance:
What is going to happen if I throw further than I think I am?
What is going to happen if I underthrow?
What's worse?

Regarding stability:
If I'm concerned that a disc is going to flip because of wind, it probably will. Go to a slightly more overstable disc.