Help me build my first bag :)

[sleepy]

Hi all,

First, a little background. I've been playing since Sept '05 and practicing pretty consistently since the beginning of this year. I started out with the 3 disc starter set from Innova, and am now in the process of improving my technique and learning new discs. I am a RHBH thrower, and max out at about 310' off the tee, and am still struggling with things like off-axis torque and grip-locks, and keeping the discs low...most of my drives are about 30-50' high at their apex. I can occasionally get some good snap, but not too often. I try to throw my straight tee shots as hyzer flips.

I've got a pretty wide array of plastic I'm borrowing from friends. Most of it is fairly beat in, and almost all of it is at or near max weight. I'd like to get a little feedback from everyone here as to which of these discs you think I should pursue further, or if I should go in a different direction. I've already come to the conclusion that I should use lighter weight...I'm thinking between 166 and 172.

What I'm currently using/experimenting with:
Drivers:
X XS - One of my best off the tee if i get a good hyzer flip. Flips flat, flies straight.
Z XS - Bought at Play It Again. Pretty beat. I have thrown it well, but not often
Z Xpress - Just got this, but really like it. Very straight...no turnover at all. It's max wt and brand new, so maybe I don't have the arm to turn it yet?
X XL - This is pretty beat. I have a tendency to really turn this over if not careful.
DX Orc - My farthest driver so far, but needs a lot of room to fly.
Pro Valk - Max wt and new. Ok driver from a hyzer flip, but I can't turn it over, so it ends up short
Pro Beast - Acts more stable than the pro valk
Pro Orc - I like it, but it's shorter than the DX Orc
Pro Wraith - I usually can't throw this well...it hyzers out and dies early. I've had one good rip, and it went about 320 on a big ol' S curve
Pro Firebird - I guess this'd be good for specialty shots, but I can't throw it far at all...maybe a Whippet would be better?
Orion LS - Surprising. I can throw this on a straight bullet with minimal fade.

Mids:
DX Roc - It's fairly beat, and I can really turn it over off the tee if I'm not careful
DX Spider - More beat than the Roc, but still hyzers pretty good if I need it to; but can also be turned over from the tee
Note: I'm not crazy about either of these mids. I like the feeling of a beadless mid better...like a Shark or Buzzz

Putters:
Aviar P&A - Not bad; but I'm not totally in love either
Pro Rhyno - For windy putting
Soft Proto Wizard - Just got this two days ago. Still need to putt with it more, but I love it already for driving...thanks roadkill!

I realize that most of the drivers I'm using are probably too fast for me....thanks to Blake's Disc Selection Article I have no problem with sticking to Tiers 2 and maybe 3 for drivers if it will help my game. I have also been thinking of sticking to Pro/X plastic to get a little better durability than DX/D, but to get better glide/distance than Champ/Z.

I would also prefer to limit myself to 6-8 molds, and learn how to use them effectively. I don't mind carrying 3-4 of the same disc in different stages of wear; but I like what I hear about using a new buzzz (for example) for stable shots, a worn one for straight shots, and a beat one for turnovers.


Wow...sorry for writing a novel. I sure hope someone reads all this!



sleepy

[krusen]

What I'm currently using/experimenting with:
Drivers:

Z XS - Bought at Play It Again. Pretty beat. I have thrown it well, but not often
Z Xpress - Just got this, but really like it. Very straight...no turnover at all. It's max wt and brand new, so maybe I don't have the arm to turn it yet?
X XL - This is pretty beat. I have a tendency to really turn this over if not careful.
DX Orc - My farthest driver so far, but needs a lot of room to fly.
Pro Valk - Max wt and new. Ok driver from a hyzer flip, but I can't turn it over, so it ends up short
Pro Beast - Acts more stable than the pro valk
Pro Orc - I like it, but it's shorter than the DX Orc
Pro Wraith - I usually can't throw this well...it hyzers out and dies early. I've had one good rip, and it went about 320 on a big ol' S curve
Pro Firebird - I guess this'd be good for specialty shots, but I can't throw it far at all...maybe a Whippet would be better?
Orion LS - Surprising. I can throw this on a straight bullet with minimal fade.
sleepy

Looks to me like your bag should be this:

DX Orc for long D Driver.

The Orion or Xpress for stable control.

The X XL for understable.

Pro Firebird for very overstable...don't worry about buying a whippet, it's more overstable and not as fast.

Not sure which one you should use for you mildly overstable disc. Find something between the Orion and the Firebird. Maybe the Beast.

Put everything else in a box and bring them out only for practice sessions. The Wraith won't fly well until you can throw >350' consistently. Stay away from premium plastic for any new purchases. DX Teebirds or X XL's would be great discs to keep on hand to fill the straight driver spot when your Orion or Xpress get too flippy.

As for midrange, it sounds like you should buy yourself a max wt D Buzzz

[roadkill]

Considering you're fairly new (<1 year), I think you'd be better served by limiting the number of molds you carry. Actually if you've read my posts you'll realize this advise is kinda a sermon I preach frequently to dg'ers of varying experience.

Two "do it all" discs I like are the coyote and the champion panther. If you have off axis torque or wrist roll, you may turn these over, but if using good technique they are pretty reliable discs from 100-350'. They both are fairly forgiving moderate speed discs. They are both considerably longer than a roc. They are as much fairway drivers as they are mid ranges.

To these I'd add one stable long driver of your choice and one understable driver of your choice. Throw in a Z buzz for windy conditions and low ceiling shots. And finally a putter or two. My choice for putters are the wizard (primary putter) and an 86 softie (anyhyzer putts / approaches and airbounce shots). If you don't like the 86 the Z puttr and whittler are great ultra slow disc choices.

[Blake_T]

the xpress is actually pretty stable... i don't really consider it understable compared to discs like a leopard, roadrunner, etc.

pick one (stable control driver):
Z XS - Bought at Play It Again. Pretty beat. I have thrown it well, but not often
Z Xpress - Just got this, but really like it. Very straight...no turnover at all. It's max wt and brand new, so maybe I don't have the arm to turn it yet?

understable:
X XL - This is pretty beat. I have a tendency to really turn this over if not careful.

pick one (max d):
DX Orc - My farthest driver so far, but needs a lot of room to fly.
Pro Valk - Max wt and new. Ok driver from a hyzer flip, but I can't turn it over, so it ends up short
Pro Beast - Acts more stable than the pro valk
Pro Orc - I like it, but it's shorter than the DX Orc
Pro Wraith - I usually can't throw this well...it hyzers out and dies early. I've had one good rip, and it went about 320 on a big ol' S curve
Orion LS - Surprising. I can throw this on a straight bullet with minimal fade.
sleepy

pick one (moderately overstable, may want to seek out something else if these die too hard):
Pro Wraith - I usually can't throw this well...it hyzers out and dies early. I've had one good rip, and it went about 320 on a big ol' S curve
Pro Firebird - I guess this'd be good for specialty shots, but I can't throw it far at all...maybe a Whippet would be better?

very overstable:
???

as for mids, do you like the FEEL better of a beadless or the FLIGHT better of a beadless? imo, beadless mids are superior. if you reject beads, you have very few choices for a stable/semi-stable mid: buzzz, element x, shark, coyote, goblin, squall, etc.

putter: pick one mold that can do it all. if it can't do it all, it isn't the right mold.

as for plastic, i personally find that pl/x is a lot more squirrely and not very responsive at all compared to d/dx. i throw dx for stable to understable drivers, but overstable drivers are fine in champ/z as long as you aren't trying to throw them straight. most z/champ mids are easy enough to throw.

[sleepy]

Thanks for the suggestions! Taking the discs everyone mentioned into consideration:

Drivers:
DX Orc for wide open max distance

Z Xpress for stable controlled drives

X XL for long turnover drives

I think I might want to try something other than the Pro Wraith or Firebird for moderately overstable...I think they die too hard. How about a Teebird or Eagle? Anything from Discraft to fill this spot?

Pro Firebird (FL mold) for overstable/headwind drives (Do you really think I'll need anything more overstable than this? A Predator or Reaper, perhaps?)

Mids:
I think I'm going to let a few discs battle it out and pick one winner. I'm torn between carrying several discs in base plastic in different stages of wear; or finding a disc whose flight I like right off the bat and only carrying one disc in premium plastic. Right now it's between the:

Buzzz
Shark
Coyote

If these three aren't that stable when new, maybe I'd be better carrying multiples in different stages of wear so I've always got a new one on hand when i need a more stable mid...

Putters:
If I'm only going to carry one mold to do it all, then it's got to be my new Soft Proto Wizard. I'm not real sure how it performs in the wind yet, but so far it's great for distance and normal putting.


Blake: I like the feel of beadless mids better. My first midrange was a Shark, and I just like the way it (and the Buzzz) fits in my hand better than a Roc or Spider.

Krusen: Thanks for suggesting the Teebird. I've been wanting to try it, just haven't been able to get my hands on one.

Roadkill: Thanks for suggesting the Coyote. Same thing as the Teebird...as soon as I can find one, I'll try it out!



Please keep in mind that I'm not rushing out to buy these discs and finalize my bag just yet. I'm going to take the discs you've all suggested and throw them more to narrow down my choices. I'm also going to get my hands on a few other discs (shark, buzzz, coyote, teebird) and throw them to see how they compare.


Thanks so much for your help so far, and please keep the suggestions coming!


sleepy

[Blake_T]

out of the buzzz, shark, and coyote, the coyote is the most understable and the buzzz is the most stable. imo, the buzzz is the best of those discs. my personal advice is to not let any rim characteristic affect your disc choices as it's severely limiting unless it draws blood

from the sound of it, your overstable drivers should be something a lot slower...

remember with overstable that line is more important than D.
if you go with something older, it may fill both moderately overstable and very overstable roles.

stuff to consider trying with moderately slow flights:
x talon
x predator
x reaper
x x-clone
x xtra
millennium exp1 (banshee in pro plastic)
dx banshee
dx firebird

if the wraith and FL are too overstable, chances are discs like the avenger, crush, starfire-x, etc. will also be too overstable.

[sleepy]

out of the buzzz, shark, and coyote, the coyote is the most understable and the buzzz is the most stable. imo, the buzzz is the best of those discs. my personal advice is to not let any rim characteristic affect your disc choices as it's severely limiting unless it draws blood

Okay. I'll try to warm up to the Roc. I'll get a DX Roc and a D Buzzz and throw them both...unless you think the Buzzz is more Roc-like in another plastic...Z Buzzz, perhaps?

from the sound of it, your overstable drivers should be something a lot slower...

remember with overstable that line is more important than D.
if you go with something older, it may fill both moderately overstable and very overstable roles.

I like the sound of that...a disc that can serve more than one purpose. Would you mind explaining how I would go about using one disc for moderate and very overstable needs?

stuff to consider trying with moderately slow flights:
x talon
x predator
x reaper
x x-clone
x xtra
millennium exp1 (banshee in pro plastic)
dx banshee
dx firebird

Looks like I've got some discs to try!

if the wraith and FL are too overstable, chances are discs like the avenger, crush, starfire-x, etc. will also be too overstable.

I'll keep that in mind.


Thanks again to everyone for taking time to answer my 1000 questions. I don't want to sound like a suck-up for saying that repeatedly, but I really do appreciate it. Anything I can learn while improving my game is invaluable.


sleepy

[Blake_T]

the z buzz is more roc like, as it is like a broken in roc. the d buzz is more like a super beat in roc.
i wouldn't worry too much about it. if you like one, go for it, my point was mainly that becoming feel dependent is very limiting. i personally LOVE the bead on discs, but i could make the transition without any trouble assuming it doesn't have super nasty flashing that will end up drawing blood from my index finger

slower overstable discs are more versatile than newer overstable discs since you can make a slow overstable disc fly straight for a good chunk of flight simply by throwing it fast/hard and flat/slight anhyzer. because you are putting a lot of speed it in, it will prolong the fade. with discs that fly at a speed faster than you can generate, they will fade much earlier. basically, if you have 300+ power, you should be able to make an x-clone fly straight if you want to, but also make it fly very overstable if you want it to.

as for that list... pick one, unless you can score some kind of deal. e.g. find someone who fishes discs out of ponds and sells them used for like $3.

[sleepy]

Great stuff Blake!

I'm going to get a hold of the discs you and others have recommended and I'll report back with my findings once I've done some experimenting.




sleepy