Suggestions for a Headwind Disc Please

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Suggestions for a Headwind Disc Please

Postby hurricanedavid » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:40 pm

I mostly play a wooded course, but it has a handfull of holes that often put me out in the open against a headwind. I don't think I have a disc right now that will work well. Can anyone offer a suggestion?

From what I've read about the Monster, I don't know if my arm is strong enough to throw it well enough. I have thrown my friend's Predator nicely, though. So maybe that's an option?

Here's my inventory:
  • Valkyrie (rubbery type plastic, orange) My main driver.
  • Cyclone D 175g (Not a hard plastic, but not an expensive one either. kinda like the Valk) Not really using this one much. I've tried it in the wind, because I knew it was supposed to be more stable than the Valk. Maybe I just need to stick with it, but I just don't feel that it's going as far as something else would.
  • Ace DX - My driver for shorter, straighter shots than the Valk. I threw it for 250' accurately the other day. Though my technique is not so good that I be as accurate all the time. I guess it's getting worn in because it's starting to turn right (during high speed flight) on me (I don't know the right disc golf term for that, though).
  • Cobra Champ 175g-ish - I don't use this one much. I had success with it in my first month of play as a straight driver, but then I switched to the Valk. I wasn't able to make it right turn in flight at the time.
  • Stingray Champ 180g
  • Roc KC Pro - Don't use this one at all. I don't know when to use it. I've never really thrown it that well. It's almost new.
  • And then I've got a few putters

My Skill Level and Throwing
  • I throw RHBH. Due to a right elbow injury, I can't throw forehand. I may have to learn to throw lefty so I can add some flexibility to my game.
  • With little to no wind, I can throw the Valkyrie 280' fairly reliably.
  • I just started playing three or four months ago, and have played at least once a week since then.
  • I'm a strong guy, and my form is improving, but I don't really know how "strong" my throwing arm is in disc golf lingo.
  • I don't know if I'll ever have tons of snap because of my elbow injury.


I am a sponge, in expectation of your collective wisdom....
What might be a good headwind disc for me?
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Postby Jwt4412 » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:15 pm

David,

I don't have the strongest arm, so I use a Champion Eagle 174 with the old bevel lip style as my headwind driver.

It has been successful for me.
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Postby Trekari » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:31 pm

Having spent several hours now chatting with Blake on the phone, here is what he recommended for me.

Stable Control Driver= D Cyclone (164-171)
Max Distance= DX Valkyrie
Understable+Roller= beat up SCD - I use a Valkyrie
Moderately Overstable= ESP Surge
Very Overstable+Wind= Predator Z (170)

DX Roc 172
DX Roc 177 (wind)

S Wizard
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Postby Blake_T » Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:26 am

right now the kc roc is the best wind disc in your bag, but it's far from a max d disc.

you have to look at headwind discs from a perspective of max distance, max accuracy, or max predictability. it's an imperfect world and you can't really have all at once.

moderate headwind discs (less than 15-20 mph) are the longer flying discs of the bunch. most, but not all of these discs will flip a bit into a stronger headwind.

most recommended:
z avenger
champion starfire

other considerations:
x predator
x or z talon
x reaper
star starfire

heavy headwind discs (greater than 15-20 mph) are generally more overstable and will be more difficult to flip, or at least will always come back if flipped. these discs will rarely carry max d, but are often the same discs used for overhand shots, skip shots, trick shots, knife hyzers, etc.

most recommended:
z flick
z predator
champ firebird

other considerations:
champ monster
star firebird
star teerex
z reaper
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Postby hurricanedavid » Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:27 am

Thank you. In my research, it was looking like the Avenger was going to be a strong candidate. Glad to get confirmation that my research is good.

I also wanted to ask you about some terminology...
Blake_T wrote:...most, but not all of these discs will flip a bit into a stronger headwind....

Blake, I've been reading and come across the word flip a lot in reading about how discs fly. I haven't been able to really get the meaning out of the context. When you use the word "flip" above, what do you mean?

And also, is that similar to the phrase, roll over, as in...
"I can't get this disc to roll over."

Thanks Blake, and others, for your help.
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Postby krusen » Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:10 am

I don't know if I have heard the term "roll over" all that much. Maybe you are thinking of "turn over". Yes, this is the same as a "flip".
On a RHBH throw, when the disc goes from flat -- to a right leaning or anhyzer angle \ .
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Postby adamschneider » Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:37 am

The local guy I buy most of my discs from talks about one disc being more or less "flippy" than another, and he essentially means understable -- it has more high-speed turn to the right (on a RHBH throw).

The really wacky thing about the terminology is that some people will label the two ends of the continuum as "overstable" and "stable" (or they'll label the middle of the continuum as a fixed point called "stable"), so when they say that a disc is "more stable," they actually mean "less overstable" (i.e., closer to the middle).
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Postby presidio hills » Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:35 am

really confusing for me is when i want a disc to flip and someone in my group yells "FLEX!!!" and i'm just thinking to myself "should i explain to him that he means 'flip' and that flex is the opposite?"
nah... movin' on.

oh, btw. the flex is the 'fade' or low speed overstable part of the flight. when throwing a big anhyzer you're playing the flex.
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Postby hurricanedavid » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:38 pm

Man, this thread is really educating me as to some of this lingo!

presidio hills wrote:really confusing for me is when i want a disc to flip and someone in my group yells "FLEX!!!" and i'm just thinking to myself "should i explain to him that he means 'flip' and that flex is the opposite?"


But I wonder about what you've said above... the discs I throw... I never have to wonder if they're going to turn. If they do, then they do so pretty quickly. I never have time to need to yell "Turn Turn!" What I find myself yelling is "FADE...FADE... FADE..." (like when it's headed for the trees on the right, and I'm hoping it flexes out and starts it's fade sooner than later).

Do your discs/throwing style wait a little before they turn?
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Postby Blake_T » Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:49 pm

any disc that is going to turn generally turns pretty early in its flight if thrown flat.

throwing a flippy disc hyzer = late turn.
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Postby hurricanedavid » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:26 am

Thanks everyone. I went to the store to either buy a Starfire or an Avenger. I went with the Avenger after looking at the different color and weight combinations that they offered. I think I got it in the Z plastic.

I've played a few games with it and I'm really impressed. My first game out with it, I topped my top longest distance throw (that I previously had with my Valk).

Thanks everyone for your excellent advice!
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Postby Fritz » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:40 am

Blake...what about the ESP Avenger instead of a Z? for moderate headwind disc?
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Postby Blake_T » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:46 pm

being that the esp avenger isn't a standard production disc, i haven't thrown it nor have any plan to.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:36 am

In Texas, you don't leave the house without a champ firebird or a z predator. Predator is my choice though I've been trying out a star teerex for headwinds and it does fine (not as long).
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Postby smpen45 » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 pm

monster, if u caN GET used to it. It will own the wind.\




Can you tame the monster?
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