Discraft and Innova

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Discraft and Innova

Postby coogs » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:58 pm

I only ask this here after reading a ton of the posts and concluding that there won't be any ***** fights when I ask this question.

Why choose Innova over Discraft or vice versa? I ask because I tend to stick with Innova discs simply because I know more about them (my knowledge pales in comparison to most of you) but I wonder if I'm missing something by not trying out some Discraft discs. Is this just an issue of personal preference, or are there practical implications behind the choice?
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Postby Rooster » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:07 pm

try all types of discs man. yur bound to find discs from every manufacturer that you'll like. i like innova drivers and discraft mids and putters. you can't just limit yourself to one brand. variety is the spice of life.
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Postby bigs348 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:41 pm

I tend to stick with Innova, too. Mainly because I think they do the best job of marketing, and I can look at flight charts to learn about a disc. It just so happens that their flight ratings and charts fit my throwing style almost exactly, so I can have a pretty good idea of what a disc will do. Personally, I think Discrafts 1.6, 0.5, etc. doesn't tell me a thing about their discs.

I do throw Buzzzes and Predators though because I've tried them and I've liked them. I used to use Wizards, too, and have tried every Gateway disc except for the new Odyssey and Scream stuff. If I hear enough about how good a disc is, I'll usually try it, but just buying something cold I tend to stick with Innova because I can at least get a decent idea of what the disc should do.

Blake's flight chart and Marshall Street's flight guide has kinda leveled the playing field a good bit now, so I've been trying different discs now that I can hear about what they'll do first.

I agree with Rooster -- try everything you can and throw what fits your game best. Take into account availability, too. I know a lot of people that like brands besides Innova, but it's hard to walk into a store and buy anything other than Innova around here, so they tend to stick with what they can get easily.
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Postby Blake_T » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:27 pm

every company has its relative strengths and weaknesses.

not knowing how a company's discs fly is not a reason not to throw them. there's 1239048203849032x as much product literature available now than there was when i started disc golfing 6 years ago (in fact, that's the rason i started this site). you can easily find info on nearly any disc made now, and often with fairly accurate descriptions.

honestly i can say that no single company has the "best" disc in each class. until that happens, i can say that i will be carrying a mixed bag.

innova is the only company that requires you to be throwing only their product if you are a prospect for sponsorship. with that being said, unless you are a legitimate candidate for their sponsorship, there is no reason really to throw any one manufacturer's products.

to sum up my findings:
discraft is the frontrunner on overstable drivers.
innova is the frontrunner on straight drivers.
gateway has the best quality standard plastic.

it always amuses me when people refuse to throw millennium because it's not innova... even though the discs are designed by dave dunipace at innova and produced by innova... the engravings on the bottom even say innova.
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Postby twmccoy » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:30 pm

Some people seem to choose a brand and throw nothing but the brand they choose. This is not usually the smartest thing to do since innova and discraft both make discs that complement each other. Lets face it, innova doesn't make the flick or buzz and discraft doesn't make the orc or wraith. I throw both brands. On a side note, I do prefer innovas champion plastic to discrafts Z. I find the Z too slippery.
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Postby bigs348 » Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:54 am

I think not knowing how a company's discs fly is a perfectly good reason not to buy them. Why waste my money on a disc that I have no clue how it will fly, when I can buy from another company and have a pretty good idea of what it should do?

However, I do agree with you that with a little research this isn't a problem -- thanks to this site, your flight chart, and Marshall Street's flight guide, anyone can know what almost any disc does as long as they know what to look for. If you're willing to put the time in before buying, then you can find exactly what you need all in one place and order discs from any and every manufacturer if you want.

For the record, my bag does consist of mostly Innova -- 3 Wraiths, 5 TLs, and 3 Avairs -- but I also carry 4 Buzzzes and 2 Predators. To be honest, this is because I don't like the Firebird very much and I read great things about the Predator. Same goes for the Buzzzes, I tried Rocs and didn't like them and went to the Buzzz. I wasn't striving to be only Innova at first, but that's what tends to be available at tournies and that's what I can find most easily. Throw whatever will give you the lowest score and screw what everyone says, that's my advice.
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Postby Blake_T » Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:15 am

bigs348 wrote:If you're willing to put the time in before buying, then you can find exactly what you need all in one place and order discs from any and every manufacturer if you want.


exactly :)

from what i've found, people trying to seek out anything they want, even from a manufacturer stocked locally, they generally have to order online.

as for marketing... it's a tossup. the speed rating on the innova chart is misleading (it is a power requirement). while i agree discraft's ratings are inadequate, it only takes ~3 discs to learn it and to know what to expect. also, discraft generally has their most popular discs in their most popular plastics (i consider this to be part of marketing) and is more willing to let slower discs linger in their premium product line than innova (e.g. z xl, z xpress, vs. no more kc cheetah/gazelle). i'm not going to say discraft does good marketing, just that i don't feel either company does particularly well at it.
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Postby MrTasses » Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:09 pm

I think a big part of it is personal loyalty. There are a lot of people that have a strong sense of loyalty and so will pick their favorite team, or player, or company and see all competitors as enemies.

I tend to be even more skeptical of of products and companies with big marketing. Most summer movies, Crystal Pepsi, etc. have made me get very suspicious of marketing.

and I know a lot of people that cite "the rating system" by Innova as their single biggest reason for throwing almost entirely innova plastic. they don't want to spend time doing research and they can look at a picture representing how the disc will fly, say "this is the one I want"
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Postby Blake_T » Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:45 pm

the issue i have with loyalty, is loyalty to what? hehe

generally my basis for loyalty = consistent quality product that outperforms other similar products.

if the reason for loyalty is just that it's available, i see that more as blind loyalty, which usually isn't a significantly valid basis to have that loyalty.

as for the flight chart, it's understandable but could be viewed oppositely.

let's say joe newbie goes to the store, looks at the chart and buys a 175g champ orc and 175g star wraith. according to the chart both should slight s-curve, but mr. newbie throwing 100' will probably get severe 90 degree left fades with both of those discs. the end result in that scenario is a distrust for the chart.

what i have come to count on from most manufacturers is that within 24 months your favorite disc will be discontinued or severely different than it was when you learned to love it.

overall, i have found very little reason to have loyalty to any company as all of them have made what i see to be poor decisions over the past few years.

the other thing i know to be true is that players that truly have a specific type of flight they are looking for WILL do the research to try and get the best discs into their own hands.

i live in an area where there is a lot of blind loyalty to discraft. i always see this just as silly as blind loyalty to innova.
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Postby Solty » Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:52 pm

Locally.....people tend to throw whatever the 'better' people in the area throw. You have a guy that can huck a teebird 350 dead nutz straight....newbs tend to see this as their answer....and go buy teebird. first throw, hanger left.....newb gets frustrated...and never plays again...

i think as the awareness in my area grows...and more groups do more community reinvesting...more people will know who to come into the sport.

just my $0.02
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Postby Pagan » Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:11 pm

I am always saying around my home course "It's not the disc manufacturer, it's the player throwing the disc!". I catch a lotta crap from younger players echoing some older players that only throw Innova. Most of my bag is Discraft. It USED to be all Innova, I've just gravitated more towards Discraft's products. There are other brands in there too. I have some Gateway, Millenium, and Innova products as well. I preffer the Predator in a strong headwind, some preffer the Firebird. I like the Crush, some preffer the Orc. Some like the Wraith, I like the Illusion. I say don't limit yourself to ONE manufacturer.

I must say Kudos to Blake for the chart. The chart stays in my Checkbook, and one in my bag. When I am shopping the chart is in my hand, unless the information I want is already in my head. Now if only ALL manufacturers would use it. I think it'd be a lot more uniform.

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Postby Muffin_Man » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:17 pm

Even though I throw mostly Innova (but have thrown and loved discs like the Wizard, Banger, and Cyclone), one thing that has led me away from Discraft is the lack of Pro-D versions of many of their discs. I prefer the basic plastics for many obvious reasons and Innova has the majority of their discs available in DX.

I've always prefered the expanded version of stats on Innova's charts too, and their website (before Discraft overhauled theirs) was much more in-depth and helpful than most manufacturer's. Also, I was never frustrated with Innova's "flight path" pictures as I assessed how I threw my first few Innova discs, looked at their numbers, and compared them to others to see how they would fly in my hands.
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Postby Frank Delicious » Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:56 am

I am not loyal to a manufacturer but I am loyal to certain discs. I love eagles, I have been throwing them forever and they are what I am using right now for my main control driver. The same goes for most of my bag. I have mostly Innova in there right now but that is because it is what I am comfortable with. I have tried almost all the discs out there so its not like I don't know my options but when I pick up a eagle I feel more confident over my throw compared to if I was throwing a Cyclone. I am sure if I made a concious effort to switch to something else in six months I would feel more comfortable throwing it than what I am throwing now (which it looks like I will be doing since all eagles are now going to be ELs, which I don't like as much.)
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Postby MrTasses » Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:50 am

I don't think that manufacturer loyalty is a good thing, it just seems to be part of the human condition at times. It's like the people who were born and raised in DC but are yankee fans. When someone asks them "Why are you a Yankee fan" their response is "I don't know, I've just always liked them."

I love that there are more companies coming on the scene. Competition is great for consumers. Every company is going to work hard to try and make themselves unique in some way, usually with new technology.
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Postby Rob » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:15 pm

Pagan wrote:I must say Kudos to Blake for the chart. The chart stays in my Checkbook, and one in my bag. When I am shopping the chart is in my hand, unless the information I want is already in my head. Now if only ALL manufacturers would use it. I think it'd be a lot more uniform.


When im ordering some discs online i do the same exact thing. That would be awsome if all the manufacturers went by that.
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