Best side arm driver and general bag advice

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Postby rodman » Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:38 pm

And it's not that I dont care about my form. I do want to become a good fundamentally sound player but life isnt affording me the time to play more than 2 times per month with little to no practice. With those limitations I was simply wondering if there is something I could buy now that seems to work for others. I am all for long term improvement but I wouldnt mind a little reward now too. Ya know what I'm sayin bro?
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Postby Blake_T » Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:11 am

yah, i know what you are saying.

i'm not trying to be a dick about it... but it probably comes off that way.

i treat all sports the same, and in the same systems that are proven to win. in football it's pound the ball... if your RB averages 3.4 yards per carry you win... 3.3 or less and you lose...

in basketball it's lock down defense and ball movement for open shots...

with disc, if you learn the right way, you will accelerate the fastest up the learning curve. my first year, i was throwing 325' within 2 months of playing, and this was considered insane progress (longest disc on the market was the elite pro XL).

it's a tough decision to commit to fundamentals vs. the flash and glory of immediate successs.... but what you will find is that every round you spend doing it the right way is in fact practice... and doing it the wrong way isn't.
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Postby Blake_T » Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:21 am

btw, just so you know...

my methods are fairly time tested... especially with those i have taken out for their first time playing and started from scratch.

with more than 2/3 of the people i have introduced to disc golf ( more than 100 people) i have gotten them throwing over 275' within 2 rounds of playing (the 13th hole of their first time out is generally the first time they crack that barrier), and a good chunk of them end up breaking 300' within a few weeks using slow plastic. i have also gotten 4 women throwing over 250' their first time out, 2 of which were cracking 300' by the end of their first round of 18.

the key to having mental discipline to do this is to get more excited about improvement than about scores. generally with most players we don't even keep scores until they are throwing consistently and accurately.

with so many discs out on the market, it's too easy to skip step 2 in the learning process, only to have to go back, unlearn, and relearn in the longrun to make real headway. this is much more difficult and time consuming as well as frustrating.

if you are short on time, i'm sure you have 20 minutes here and there to kill where you could cruise over to a local park and rip 30-40 drives a few times a week. repetition is really the way to build that.
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Postby rodman » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:13 am

I'm sure you are time tested. Every bit of advice you give is solid and makes perfect sense. I need to tone down my competitive pride for a few more months and drop the drivers from my bag... learn better technique and then bring the longer discs back into my bag.

I too was throwing over 300 after a couple of months. I spent a crazy amount of time listening to you by reading on this site. I was thirsty for improvement and I think I started with decent fundamentals. The 1 place that I did ignore you was on picking appropriate plastic. While I wont admit that it was a huge mistake, I will say your logic is solid as to why I should use the slower plastic to develop and then progress later.

I can throw the Leopard about 290 feet with a good bit of consisteny. I dont know why i continue to try to throw my roadrunner just because I can throw it 330 feet.

The Back hand has been an exciting revolution for me. It feels like the addition of the backhand shot has given my game the ability to see other lines that otherwise I couldnt see... and to have decent chance of success no mater the situation. I'm enjoying throwing sidearm around 30% of the time.

Thanks again for your advice.
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Postby rodman » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:02 pm

I am currently reworking my bag and as I enter Blake's weekly training exercises I have filled my bag with the following.

Stable Drivers: TL 169 gms and 2 new Tee Birds at 168 grams.
Overstable: Firebird (also for sidearmers), Starfire also for sidearm
Understable: Road Runner, Beast Not quite broken in yet so doesnt flip
Mid: Roc (I dont love this disc but I'm intent on spending some time with it to get to know it) and also 2 DX leopards around 169 gms for shorter drives off the tee.
Putters: Wizard and Aviar

I'm carrying 2 in each category for several reasons... 1. I enjoy buying and testing plastic and as I lose plastic I replace with the better mold. 2. I'm trying to decide on one mold over another and.... havent practiced either enough yet. 3. Discs like Roadrunners are on their way out of my bag so I try to carry others that can fill that void BUT it still performs so well that I cant banish it yet.

I know every category has some overlap but I think including some overlap that I've got most shots covered (certainly most shots that I can pull off).

I think this is an okay setup to begin Blake's exercises. We'll see.

Any advice is appreciated.
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Postby deaddisc » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:16 pm

Ive been getting my sidearm out there pretty far and the correct disc really depends on the situation. If you want something hard to the right and somewhat shorter, go for a monster. Longer than that and take your pick between a champion firebird, or Z Flick. I love the Flick and they beat in nicely so you can have different stabilities. I have heard that the Teerex drops bombs, but currently my long driver is a somewhat beat Star Wraith (350+).
Also, I like the Stokely X-Step if I need to really get max D; other than that I stand still and let my wrist do the work. Hope this helps, I find that the sidearm shot can be crucial if you cannot throw a good anny RHBH.
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Postby Weebl » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:26 pm

Sidearm shots can be very useful. I have a decent anny and I still go sidearm sometimes when I need to knife in quick and stop, or have a sharp dogleg right. I've noticed lately I'm starting to use more understable discs and hyzerflipping to get a more predictable straight shot with a right fade instead of throwing a roll curve RHBH.
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Postby Mr. Merchant » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:25 pm

i'm thinking of buying a firebird for sidearm. will I see anything different out of this disc then the monster and pred? worth my money?
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Postby jgarcia9102 » Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:29 am

Firebird is most similar to a pred, but for me the pred is a lot straighter. the pred will go straight then fade hard, while the firebird turns through its entire flight. i have never flipped a firebird, even on windy days, but in a headwind, the pred has a tendency to do a slight s turn.
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Postby Blake_T » Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:13 am

z preds if moderately new, should not turn into really any headwind unless they are thrown anhyzer.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:55 am

jgarcia9102 wrote:Firebird is most similar to a pred, but for me the pred is a lot straighter. the pred will go straight then fade hard, while the firebird turns through its entire flight. i have never flipped a firebird, even on windy days, but in a headwind, the pred has a tendency to do a slight s turn.


not to mention preds are longer too ;-)

and the grip is oh so comfy like my avengers :P (yes I got over the sharp rim and love it now)
Z Pred-ESP Cyclone-Z Force-Z Aftershock-Z Comet-Ion-Pro Rhyno
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Postby jgarcia9102 » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:29 pm

Blake_T wrote:z preds if moderately new, should not turn into really any headwind unless they are thrown anhyzer.


Oh this pred had been on the bottom of a lake for probably a year, and was one of the most scratched up and abused Z plastic disc i have ever seen, so thats probably why it went a bit right. it did come back though, i wasnt complaining... My CE eagle, Firebird, and Pred were replaced by a CFR Viper though, this thing is a beast...
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